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i took it to be capacity efficiency
Pipelines, energy and natural resources
- Thread starter QV
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You're right on Betz law. Gawd. I haven't read my textbook in a decade. Correct.
Either way it most certainly wasn't 25-30% of rated capacity for offshore though. Quick Google says UK is currently at 44% offshore. I think you get closer to the 50-60% of rated capacity with size.
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Yes, but 80% of of 60% is 48% (~50%).
We are hyper simplifying things though and really just confounding the maximum energy you can pull from the wind with the turbines output.
Rated capacity on a wind turbine is calculated by the turbines engineered capacity. Turbines when installed are designed to maximize the available wind energy and run at their highest capacity as much as possible. This means they have gearing in them to stop them from "running away" if the wind is higher.
Then you figure out how many hours a turbine is actually producing at its rated capacity (maximum). You divide those by each other x 365 days and you get.... the actual capacity. 44% means that the wind blew to only 44% of the turbines maximum capacity (full out turbine every day all day).
The Betz law only really applies during design, so that you can properly size/engineer the turbine to match the wind where you're going to locate the wind turbine. You're trying to get to the point in the cost curve where you minimize the turbine cost and maximize the power produced. 44% might be the sweet spot where any larger the turbine gets to expensive and any smaller you're leaving power (aka money) on the table.
Betz's Law tells you how much of the wind can be converted into mechanical energy. It's essentially drives the density limit of turbine placement. That's become a less relevant concern with offshore wind where there tends to be a lot more room.
Mostly though in conventional discourse, nobody is talking about the theoretical physical limit of a turbine. They are generally concerned with how much of the rated capacity is actually being delivered. And if you look up the UK that's something like 44% for offshore. And getting higher as turbines size up. And now new designs like the multi turbine mounts.
Going back a bit to the original point here. It's to use maximum local advantage. Wasting a wind resource is no different than passing up on oil reserves.
Mostly though in conventional discourse, nobody is talking about the theoretical physical limit of a turbine. They are generally concerned with how much of the rated capacity is actually being delivered. And if you look up the UK that's something like 44% for offshore. And getting higher as turbines size up. And now new designs like the multi turbine mounts.
Going back a bit to the original point here. It's to use maximum local advantage. Wasting a wind resource is no different than passing up on oil reserves.
One of the big reasons I took an interest in studying cleantech is to understand the geopolitics and energy security implications of stories like this:
Pakistan has had a long history of IMF bailouts tied to energy prices going up. The Chinese exports of solar PVs could break that cycle. It also means reduced influence of the West over Pakistan. In yet another way.
Pakistan has had a long history of IMF bailouts tied to energy prices going up. The Chinese exports of solar PVs could break that cycle. It also means reduced influence of the West over Pakistan. In yet another way.
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Virginia class S9G 210 MWt
33% electrical efficiency comparable to Darlington
70 MWe
140 MWt
If I only want electricity from wind then I need 14 offshore 10 MW turbines operating at 50% efficiency, a bunch of concrete blocks and steel pylons and a couple of boats, a helicopter and a team of daredevils. On shore I can get away without the boats but now I need 42 5 MW turbines operating at 33% efficiency. I also need miles of wire, lots of pylons to support it and a battery farm resulting in a very large hole in the ground for the lithium.
If I want heat as well then we can multiply those numbers by three. 42 offshore turbines and 126 onshore. And a lot of land access rights.
Or we can do the SMR thing.
33% electrical efficiency comparable to Darlington
70 MWe
140 MWt
If I only want electricity from wind then I need 14 offshore 10 MW turbines operating at 50% efficiency, a bunch of concrete blocks and steel pylons and a couple of boats, a helicopter and a team of daredevils. On shore I can get away without the boats but now I need 42 5 MW turbines operating at 33% efficiency. I also need miles of wire, lots of pylons to support it and a battery farm resulting in a very large hole in the ground for the lithium.
If I want heat as well then we can multiply those numbers by three. 42 offshore turbines and 126 onshore. And a lot of land access rights.
Or we can do the SMR thing.
Capex is not the only problem. Do the same comparison again with opex. What's the marginal cost per Watt? Heck, what's the cost per watt on the capex?
Sure. If you're in SK and can't get offshore wind easily, nuclear makes sense (I am not even sure SMRs are competitive with conventional reactors yet). But if you're in the Maritimes, why would you pay nuclear money when lots of offshore wind and a few gas peakers would give you the lowest cost power? No one size fits all. That's a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp.
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what do we use the heat for?
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OBL didn't find them too anti-west for his needs.
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1,600,000 litres per hour
38,400,000 litres per day
en.clickpetroleoegas.com.br
Calgary uses about 500,000,000 litres per day
www.ctvnews.ca
38,400,000 litres per day
A plant in the Atacama Desert capable of transforming 1,6 million liters of seawater into drinking water per hour shows how even the driest area on the planet is beginning to drink from the ocean.
A power plant in the Atacama Desert transforms seawater into potable water per hour, guaranteeing a supply to Chilean cities in a region of extreme scarcity.
en.clickpetroleoegas.com.br
Calgary uses about 500,000,000 litres per day
‘Heavy strain’: Calgary water consumption rises Friday to 493 million litres
Calgary water consumption rose Friday, putting the city’s water resources under ‘heavy strain’ according to the city’s social media.
www.ctvnews.ca
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China plants trees and grass in the desert. Trees pump water to Tibet that had been going to the eastern farmlands and major metropolises.
www.asiafinancial.com
China clears up pollution over its cities. Raises planet's temperature, changes rainfall patterns, impacts bushfire frequency in Australia.
www.abc.net.au
....
Central planning.
....
Were Canada's and California's fires related?
China's Desert Greening Projects Altering its Water Table: Study
Expanding forests in eastern China and restored grasslands in other areas have led to a movement of moisture that scientists are now seeking to comprehend
www.asiafinancial.com
China clears up pollution over its cities. Raises planet's temperature, changes rainfall patterns, impacts bushfire frequency in Australia.
China's anti-pollution crusade linked to Australian bushfires
As China caps off a historic clean-up of its smog and air pollution, the clearer air is helping temperatures rise to new records. Now, researchers are linking that change to hotter and drier conditions in Australia.
www.abc.net.au
....
Central planning.
....
Were Canada's and California's fires related?
HavokFour
Army.ca Veteran
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I think the oil sands may be safe for sometime longer. Still very much need a pipe west (and a refinery or two in country).
www.theguardian.com
Trump suggests US taxpayers could reimburse oil firms for Venezuela investment
President says a ‘tremendous amount of money’ will need to be spent repairing country’s infrastructure
www.theguardian.com
Rystad says they need $110B to get back to production levels before Chavez.
Think about what that means. Where do they get that kind of capital? How long does it take to invest that capital? How long does it take to get a return on investment? Who will be President in both countries over that entire time?
Best take I heard is that the boards at these companies have to wonder what President Gavin Newsom or President JD Vance or President AOC would do to their investments a decade from now. Or what the situation would be in Venezuela in 20 years. Would they face another nationalization?
Trump and co are morons who can't think through second and third order effects. So they think all they have to do is nab Maduro and oil companies will happily roll in with billions of dollars in capital and thousands of highly skilled employees. Reality is a little differrent. And the fact that they are already promising US Government financial assistance tells you how desperate they are already, to make this work.
Think about what that means. Where do they get that kind of capital? How long does it take to invest that capital? How long does it take to get a return on investment? Who will be President in both countries over that entire time?
Best take I heard is that the boards at these companies have to wonder what President Gavin Newsom or President JD Vance or President AOC would do to their investments a decade from now. Or what the situation would be in Venezuela in 20 years. Would they face another nationalization?
Trump and co are morons who can't think through second and third order effects. So they think all they have to do is nab Maduro and oil companies will happily roll in with billions of dollars in capital and thousands of highly skilled employees. Reality is a little differrent. And the fact that they are already promising US Government financial assistance tells you how desperate they are already, to make this work.
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This in from PP & Co.: CAN needs to get in while the getting's good ...
Here's the letter ....
Here's the letter ....
Altair
Army.ca Fixture
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So when I say it, it's alarmist.
When Danielle Smith or Pierre Poilievre say it, it's alright.
I see how it is.
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