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The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

To take part, gun owners will register their firearms online. Once registered they turn the firearms in and then wait and hope to be paid.

The problem is once you register your firearm you're obligated to turn it in. You. may get fair value for it, $300 for it, or the pot of money runs out and you get fuck all.

That money is going to go fast. There's around 95,000 AR15s registered in Canada. At $1800 a pop that's $171 million out of $700m
There's a hell of a lot more now-illegal long rifles out there. I've seen estimates at a 1:10 to 1:20 ratio of Ar15 vs other banned semi-autos.
You won't get market value. In fact, I'll be surprised if you get anything. Most of the money will be used to pay retailers for their stock. Giving them a list of your holdings is an indication that you probably shouldn't own guns.........or anything sharp. Just another back door registration scheme. One they already tried and failed at.
 
100%. I stand to lose a fair bit with this law as none of mine if turned in will have a positive return.

For example AR-15 uppers they refuse to pay for. Thats a lot of cash for many people right there.

I have no uppers. Or guts. I have registrations for stripped AR lowers only.
 
When the time comes for my guns to get picked up, they'll have to come and get them with a fork-lift and truck.

They will be embedded in a concrete filled tri-wall mixed in with rebar/junk/etc. There will be a PVC tube heat welded to each receiver showing the S/N, but the rest of the receiver will be deeply embedded in about 2 tons of concrete.

No good to me? No good to them either. Get your jackhammer out MFs.
 
When the time comes for my guns to get picked up, they'll have to come and get them with a fork-lift and truck.

They will be embedded in a concrete filled tri-wall mixed in with rebar/junk/etc. There will be a PVC tube heat welded to each receiver showing the S/N, but the rest of the receiver will be deeply embedded in about 2 tons of concrete.

No good to me? No good to them either. Get your jackhammer out MFs.

They can have them when I die. And even then I already told wife which ones go with me.
 
There's a lot of ways this could end.

Bear with me here.... This is just a personal prediction! Here we go:

For now, a small amount of money continues to slowly trickle into this program.

Over time, some gun owners decide to participate, mostly turning in the lower-end stuff, for example a rusty mix-master M1 Carbine that bubba has done dirty, the real junkers you would be scared to take to the range. In this case, these low-end junkers are compensated fairly because they are valued at a fixed rate (Say maybe $500) and the owners who paid next to nothing for a beater probably make a nice profit on it they can use to buy something new.

Following this, the LPC call the buyback a big success, they take some photos with the stuff they collected, throw out some stats that sound impressive, and they show they've been "removing deadly weapons from the street" to their base when the next election comes around. In reality, most gun owners still have their stuff, and what was turned was mostly crap and a tiny drop in the bucket.

Following this, the Liberals and Conservatives each continue to use gun ownership as a wedge issue, and the charade continues for several more decades. Neither side is completely satisfied, the country remains divided on the issue.

If the Liberal's stay in power, they continue to trickle out more buybacks, they continue to find new models or things to ban slowly, more minor tweaks in the law, and they know full well that if they actually confiscated everything at once and the issue becomes irrelevant, they can no longer use it as a wedge issue, so they don't rush any of this. The changes continues at the same snails pace we see now, with announcements usually happening after major gun related events in the mainstream news.

If the Conservatives gain power, they do a partial rollback of the Liberals policy, but it's not exactly what gun owners desire either, they do a little bit at a time and keep telling their base that if they keep them in power they may do more for them. For example, they stop the buyback, but they don't end the handgun freeze unless they win a few more elections in a row. They keep make promises to "help law abiding gun owners" while also not completely undoing everything or creating an entire new logical balanced system of gun ownership that would put the issue to rest.

Meanwhile, illegal guns smuggled in the from the USA, ghost guns, home builds, and other illegal activity essentially becomes a completely separate issue which is the focus of police completely separate from the politics of legal gun ownership and compensation. Police departments continue to be motivated to deal with the illegal guns, but don't want to be the ones confiscated stuff from law abiding gun owners and the dread the idea what this would entail if it was ordered.

Side note: the situation will likely be taken advantage of by firearms businesses and experienced used gun buyers who are buying up guns that they know will be banned when available for super cheap, and government will end up paying them the "fixed rate" which is like much more than they actually paid in those cases. Since the government won't have the resources or expertise to actually rate and give fair value for each gun, the government will be taken advantage of and overpay in those cases.

I know, it's hard to predict, and feel free to tear my prediction apart, but that's how I personally see this going and the most likely course of action happening in coming years and decades having followed this issue going back to the end of the Second World War when the registries began in this country. I highly doubt either side is going to satisfied anytime soon!
 
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There's a lot of ways this could end.

Bear with me here.... This is just a personal prediction!

A small amount of money continues to slowly trickle into the program. Here we go:

Over time, some gun owners decide to participate, mostly turning in the lower-end stuff, for example a rusty mix-master M1 Carbine that bubba has done dirty, the real junkers you would be scared to take to the range. In this case, these low-end junkers are compensated fairly because they are valued at a fixed rate (Say maybe $500) and the owner paid next to nothing for a beater they probably make a nice profit on it they can use to buy something new. If someone or a business was stock piling junkers, they probably actually make a bunch of money from the situation.

Following this, the LPC call the buyback a big success, they take some photos with the stuff they collected, throw out some stats that sound impressive, and they show they've been "removing deadly weapons from the street" to their base when the next election comes around. In reality, most gun owners still have their stuff, and what was turned was mostly crap and a tiny drop in the bucket.

Following this, the Liberals and Conservatives each continue to use gun ownership as a wedge issue, and the charade continues for several more decades. Neither side is completely satisfied, the country remains divided on the issue.

If the Liberal's stay in power, they continue to trickle out more buybacks, they continue to find new models or things to ban slowly, more minor tweaks in the law, and they know full well that if they actually confiscated everything at once and the issue becomes irrelevant, they can no longer use it as a wedge issue, so they don't rush any of this.

If the Conservatives gain power, they do a partial rollback of the Liberals policy, but it's not exactly what gun owners desire either, they do a little bit at a time and keep telling their base that if they keep them in power they may do more for them. For example, they stop the buyback, but they don't end the handgun freeze unless they win a few more elections in a row. They keep make promises to "help law abiding gun owners" while also not completely undoing everything or creating an entire new logical balanced system of gun ownership that would put the issue to rest.

I know, it's hard to predict, and feel free to tear my prediction apart, but that's exactly how I see this going and the most likely course of action I could see happening in coming years / decades having followed this issue going back to the end of the Second World War when the registries began in this country. I highly doubt either side is going to satisfied anytime soon.

Side note: the situation will likely be taken advantage of by firearms businesses and experienced used gun buyers who are buying up guns that they know will be banned for super cheap, and government will end up paying them a "fixed rate" which is like much more than they actually paid in these cases, since they don't have the resources or expertise to actually rate and give fair value for each gun, which will be one of worst aspects of the entire program. This happened in both the UK and Australia, and some people made a lot of money doing it.

I think at this point anything less than a full roll back to at least pre 2020 is probably going to cost the CPC the firearms community.
 
I think at this point anything less than a full roll back to at least pre 2020 is probably going to cost the CPC the firearms community.

My impression has been the firearms community overwhelmingly votes CPC as they don't feel anyone else is any better for them. It's the only option for them, there is literally nobody else in a position to actually take power and help them.

The CPC can essentially roll back one minor thing and say they helped law abiding gun owners, and just keep promising to do more later.

Let's be honest, Harper was in power a long time and he didn't exactly expand what gun owners could buy. He got rid of the long gun registry, but it's not like new models suddenly appeared at the gun store or previously prohibited guns were made legal again.

When it comes to guns in Canada, it seems to be a massive wedge issue for each side with no real end in sight.
 
My impression has been the firearms community overwhelmingly votes CPC as they don't feel anyone else is any better for them. It's the only option for them, there is literally nobody else in a position to actually take power and help them.

The CPC can essentially roll back one minor thing and say they helped law abiding gun owners, and just keep promising to do more later.

Let's be honest, Harper was in power a long time and he didn't exactly expand what gun owners could buy. He got rid of the long gun registry, but it's not like new models suddenly appeared at the gun store or previously prohibited guns were made legal again.

When it comes to guns in Canada, it seems to be a massive wedge issue for each side with no real end in sight.
Harper before he was in power promised repealing the firearms act. In power he got rid of the long gun registry and gave the ability for firearms to become ‘de-prohibited/restricted’ by OIC.

That OIC clause (i.e. prohibited by name) is the worst part of the firearms act by a long shot. At least the catagories are based off some sort of technical characteristic which can be objectively evaluated. OIC prohibition is not. It is also capable of banning every firearm in existence without changing the law (as we have seen with the most recent OIC changes).

We don’t have a pro-firearms party in Canada, it is just how against it they stand.
 
My impression has been the firearms community overwhelmingly votes CPC as they don't feel anyone else is any better for them. It's the only option for them, there is literally nobody else in a position to actually take power and help them.

The CPC can essentially roll back one minor thing and say they helped law abiding gun owners, and just keep promising to do more later.

Let's be honest, Harper was in power a long time and he didn't exactly expand what gun owners could buy. He got rid of the long gun registry, but it's not like new models suddenly appeared at the gun store or previously prohibited guns were made legal again.

When it comes to guns in Canada, it seems to be a massive wedge issue for each side with no real end in sight.

I think the only real remaining complaint around Harper's time was the silliness of the classification system. Could he have done more, yes. Were times better then, also yes.

Heres a good example:
Harper government reversed RCMP's ban on two rifle brands on eve of election

We don’t have a pro-firearms party in Canada, it is just how against it they stand.

PPC ?

Replace the Firearms Act and supporting legislation with new legislation that will prioritize effective measures to improve public safety and fight crime in Canada.

Replace the costly and burdensome licensing system with an efficient lifetime certification system for firearms owners following mandatory vetting, safety training and testing. To avoid criminalizing peaceful and responsible gun owners and guarantee their property rights, this system will legalize simple possession of firearms for certified Canadians as long as they use their firearms lawfully and don't commit some other crime that would disqualify them from firearms ownership.

Require that all firearms categories be based on function, not on looks or arbitrary political whims, and reclassify all firearms based on the Simplified Classification System as proposed by the Canadian Shooting Sports Association. This will remove ineffective restrictions which unfairly target sport shooters, but have no deterrent effect on criminals.



Libertarian Party of Canada ?

9. Right to Self-Protection

We hold that the individual has the right to own and bear arms. Consequently, we oppose restrictions on the ownership or use of guns or any other arms. General arms restrictions deprive the individual of his/her right to self-defense in an emergency situation while leaving the criminal fully armed. We propose, as an alternative to general arms restriction, the imposition of severe penalties for the criminal abuse of this right, thus placing the blame for armed crime where it properly belongs - on the criminal.
 
I am aware of the PPC and Libertarian Party firearm policies.

I personally don't believe that either the PPC or Libertarian Party have any chance of taking power anytime soon. It's my understand that within the Canadian firearm owner community there's a split between those who see the PPC as a vote-worthy cause, and those who see it as a throwaway vote when all efforts should go to supporting the Conservatives who have a better chance of winning, and at least potentially doing something instead of vote-splitting which could ultimately allow the Liberals to continue mopping the floor with Conservative candidates, which they of course gun-owners see as a worst-case type outcome.

I know that the PPC did gain some notable votes from the firearms community in recent elections, and it was a voter base they're hoping to get traction from, but it didn't exactly have an effect on anything, and in my opinion, the PPC (Or Libertarians) aren't going to change the status quo regarding legal gun ownership in Canada anytime soon.

Regarding Harper undoing the ban on two rifle bans in the link you provided, there's a lot more nuance to that story, those were incorrectly classified models and sold to the public prior to the realization they may have actually been prohibited based on the current laws of the time and the receivers the manufacturer assembled them from. It was not a case of Harper allowing gun owners to buy something that was previously prohibited, but a case of allowing them to keep something that was incorrectly classified. For those familiar with what actually happened, that entire situation was a complete mess!
 
Actually, there is an argument that the PPC actually DID have an effect on a number of ridings where the vote split let the Libs take a seat....I'll dig up a ref for that.

Edit to add - it's not as simple as the split...but...

 
We don’t have a pro-firearms party in Canada, it is just how against it they stand.

Agreed. We've established an 80+ year trend of tightening gun laws, and a status quo where both political parties cater to each side of the spectrum and slowly trickle things they think will keep their base somewhat happy with them.

This was considered as part of my hypothetical prediction of how the next couple decades will play out.
 
Actually, there is an argument that the PPC actually DID have an effect on a number of ridings where the vote split let the Libs take a seat....I'll dig up a ref for that.

Edit to add - it's not as simple as the split...but...


I also believe the PPC had a negative effect on the CPC which did cause them to lose some seats, I think it's irrelevant though in my prediction of things going forward. Unless of course the PPC actually manages to gain government, personally, I'm not expecting that to happen...
 
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