Replacing the Subs

[Colin Parkinson]

Seaspan is slowly automating, but at the same time you don't want to be seen reducing jobs when you are getting buckets of government monies.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Seaspan is slowly automating, but at the same time you don't want to be seen reducing jobs when you are getting buckets of government monies.

It is not reducing jobs. They cannot physically hire any more people, because they do not exist to be hired. They need to embrace tech to make their existing workforce much, much more productive.

 

[Czech_pivo]

It is not reducing jobs. They cannot physically hire any more people, because they do not exist to be hired. They need to embrace tech to make their existing workforce much, much more productive.

Hence a huge issue on how do we build the CDC that Topshee is desperate to get in 5-6yrs when we can’t find the people, let alone the production facilities.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Hence a huge issue on how do we build the CDC that Topshee is desperate to get in 5-6yrs when we can’t find the people, let alone the production facilities.

His point about a lack of blue collar works in Vancouver, the most expensive housing market, is astute. And hits on many levels.

 

[Underway]

It is not reducing jobs. They cannot physically hire any more people, because they do not exist to be hired. They need to embrace tech to make their existing workforce much, much more productive.

Increasing productiveness is one of the ways we compete with the world. Canadian productiveness is terrible. I applaud Seaspan for going this direction. It's only going to improve their shipyard.

 

[Rainbow1910]

How fast can the Koreans add new halls in Vancouver and Halifax and ramp up production?

It is what they did for Seaspan and what they are doing for the States.

The kind of shipbuilding people see out of Japan, China and South Korea is fundamentally built upon factors that Canada is either unwilling or physically unable to match. Ridiculous government subsidies (enough to make what Canada gives to its own yards look like pocket change) allow many of these yards to employ tactics which would otherwise be financially untenable without such supports, lower wages/currency costs allow competitiveness, long standing advanced shipbuilding techniques, potentially kind of iffy warship build standards for quicker/simpler builds, high use of foreign imported workforces, etc. Many of these yards are jumping between substantial commercial orders and military orders, not being concerned about layoffs or a lack of work that many Western yards suffer from.

We can always make improvements to our shipyards however, its fundamentally unrealistic to expect the Koreans, Japanese or whoever else to just snap their fingers and magically make our shipyards more effective. For all the crap they rightfully get, Irving and Seaspan are very capable and advanced modern shipbuilding operations themselves at the end of the day.

 

[YZT580]

The kind of shipbuilding people see out of Japan, China and South Korea is fundamentally built upon factors that Canada is either unwilling or physically unable to match. Ridiculous government subsidies (enough to make what Canada gives to its own yards look like pocket change) allow many of these yards to employ tactics which would otherwise be financially untenable without such supports, lower wages/currency costs allow competitiveness, long standing advanced shipbuilding techniques, potentially kind of iffy warship build standards for quicker/simpler builds, high use of foreign imported workforces, etc. Many of these yards are jumping between substantial commercial orders and military orders, not being concerned about layoffs or a lack of work that many Western yards suffer from.

We can always make improvements to our shipyards however, its fundamentally unrealistic to expect the Koreans, Japanese or whoever else to just snap their fingers and magically make our shipyards more effective. For all the crap they rightfully get, Irving and Seaspan are very capable and advanced modern shipbuilding operations themselves at the end of the day.

Don't know about Irving but both Seaspan and Ontario Shipyards have partnered with community colleges and are developing fabrication, welding engineering, painting and electrical courses for apprentices. Each college involved should be able to train a constant supply of semi-skilled workers with the first few coming available by the end of next year which would bring them on line as the production ramps up. We don't need an abundant supply of immigrants but perhaps a few senior types to contribute to training at each facility. What we need is less discussion and even less hand-wringing

 

[Rainbow1910]

Don't know about Irving but both Seaspan and Ontario Shipyards have partnered with community colleges and are developing fabrication, welding engineering, painting and electrical courses for apprentices. Each college involved should be able to train a constant supply of semi-skilled workers with the first few coming available by the end of next year which would bring them on line as the production ramps up. We don't need an abundant supply of immigrants but perhaps a few senior types to contribute to training at each facility. What we need is less discussion and even less hand-wringing

Irving does have agreements with in place with Nova Scotia Community College for similar courses I believe. My primary point is for people to adjust expectations that even with upcoming procurement programs involving foreign nations/shipyards, we shouldn't expect some kind of quantum leap in shipbuilding at home by comparison.

 

[DBNSG]

Irving does have agreements with in place with Nova Scotia Community College for similar courses I believe. My primary point is for people to adjust expectations that even with upcoming procurement programs involving foreign nations/shipyards, we shouldn't expect some kind of quantum leap in shipbuilding at home by comparison.

Case in point.

Irving Shipbuilding and NSCC Launch New Program to Invest in Canada’s Marine Industry

shipsforcanada.ca

 

[Czech_pivo]

Case in point.

Irving Shipbuilding and NSCC Launch New Program to Invest in Canada’s Marine Industry

shipsforcanada.ca

Better late than never I guess. But planting this tree 10yrs ago in 2015 when they kicked off the AOPS would have been great. Now they'll get 80 tradespeople in the spring of 2027 and the funding is only for the initial 2yr period, no mention of it being an ongoing commitment. Hopefully they'll put forward another tranche of funding for another batch of 80 to be inducted this fall of 2026 and continue for another 10-15yrs.

 

[YZT580]

Better late than never I guess. But planting this tree 10yrs ago in 2015 when they kicked off the AOPS would have been great. Now they'll get 80 tradespeople in the spring of 2027 and the funding is only for the initial 2yr period, no mention of it being an ongoing commitment. Hopefully they'll put forward another tranche of funding for another batch of 80 to be inducted this fall of 2026 and continue for another 10-15yrs.

Won't they need it? Simple rates of attrition will require at a guess 10% replacement/training per year and that is without expansion unless they reach the point where they can do on-job apprenticing more efficiently.

 

[Brad Sallows]

To sustain a work force and a line of business for complicated expensive products with long assembly times, a steady (predictable and continuing) market demand is required. Start at the root.

 

[DBNSG]

Won't they need it? Simple rates of attrition will require at a guess 10% replacement/training per year and that is without expansion unless they reach the point where they can do on-job apprenticing more efficiently.

I believe Irving recently stated that their attrition rate is about 6.8 %.Part of the late start for NSCC collaboration has been the lack of accommodation on campus and low vacancy rates and high rents in Metro Halifax . The Province just opened two Dartmouth on site "barracks" with 300 beds . Something that has been needed for decades.

 

[YZT580]

I believe Irving recently stated that their attrition rate is about 6.8 %.Part of the late start for NSCC collaboration has been the lack of accommodation on campus and low vacancy rates and high rents in Metro Halifax . The Province just opened two Dartmouth on site "barracks" with 300 beds . Something that has been needed for decades.

Slight tangent but the benefits of the NSS are starting to appear all over as in deficiencies that have lain dormant or simply ignored for decades are coming to light and being dealt with. Rip Van Wrinkle is finally awake.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

The Globe and Mail has a new article out that states the new Subs will need additional equipment t operate under ice. Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall.

The good news is that Australian commentator Peter Coates at his website Submarine Matters has some highlights from the article:

Future Canadian Submarines' biggest task Monitor approaches to Arctic & other Chokepoints

A professional level blog on strategic matters, especially submarines (nuclear and conventional) in English, Hindi & most other major languages.

gentleseas.blogspot.com

 

[HavokFour]

Germans (slowly) catching up on their carrot offerings, still very much behind Hanwha.

German minister says auto industry in talks to expand footprint in Canada

Minister for Economic Affairs and Energy Katherina Reiche says she can’t go into detail, but Carney’s auto strategy ‘is very attractive’

www.theglobeandmail.com

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