Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[dapaterson]

We got over the War of 1812 and 54'40'' or fight. I'm sure we'll get over MAGA.

That's no reason to buy their equipment when there are other suppliers not actively trying to threaten our economy and our sovereignty.

 

[McG]

It took about 130 years, two world wars, and the threat of a third such war with Soviets to get over 1812. Recovery from MAGA might be quicker, but it’s still decades away.

 

[Infanteer]

In 1955, we were moving soldiers and their families to a country with whom we had conducted 2x total wars with over the previous half century. Our bombers took part in raids that turned their cities to charred ash, but that was alright due to the depths of their crimes against humanity. Within a generation, we were buying their tanks.

Don't let TDS get in they way of a realistic appraisal of the severity of what is going on.

 

[suffolkowner]

I think we were probably over it by WW2 but alliances arent built on morality or ethics and the end of history isnt here yet and America isnt a shining beacon on the hill. Whats worse is they dont want to even try right now. Its not going to kill us to buy a few non American weapons systems where equivalent alternatives exist.

 

[McG]

In 1955, we were moving soldiers and their families to a country with whom we had conducted 2x total wars with over the previous half century. Our bombers took part in raids that turned their cities to charred ash, but that was alright due to the depths of their crimes against humanity. Within a generation, we were buying their tanks.

I don’t think we will need to defeat the US militarily, but otherwise yes. The healing between our countries would definitely be accelerated by substantial systemic governance reform and a repentant population in the US. Trump is just a symptom of a broken US system that allowed him to happen twice.

Throwing around “TDS” is really just name calling.

 

[Infanteer]

The Germany example showed how fast political wounds heal. I'm sure ours from nasty language and tariffs will as well.

The US is more than the venal and capricious man sitting leading its current administration just as Canada is more than the dancing, unethical fool who ran our country for a decade.

We need to act smart and protect ourselves as the current administration is not friendly, but the current administration will be gone soon enough, and likely tied up in partisan infighting by next year. But the US will be here after that, and we will still share a border, share security interests, and share economic ties. Acting like it will be a longlasting existential threat is irrational.

 

[McG]

We need to prepare for the US to be a longlasting existential threat until it shows that it is not. Assuming a prompt and stable return to old normals is a hope CoA, and I do hope that is what we see … but we cannot plan on a hope CoA.

 

[Cloud Cover]

In 1955, we were moving soldiers and their families to a country with whom we had conducted 2x total wars with over the previous half century. Our bombers took part in raids that turned their cities to charred ash, but that was alright due to the depths of their crimes against humanity. Within a generation, we were buying their tanks.

Don't let TDS get in they way of a realistic appraisal of the severity of what is going on.

OTOH, the CAF needs Parliament infected with an incurable dose of TDS if the projects of today, tomorrow and up to 2029 do not wish to be cancelled. As you say, MAGA will be in the rear view mirror, and by that time Canadians will tire of large defence budgets and it won’t help things when the Americans come around to sanity. There are already people thinking we can just side with China and perhaps walk back the defence ambitions and get back to the time honoured traditions of sanctimoniously and per-formatively stifling the defence industrial strategy and its nascent base/complex.

 

[FJAG]

Doesn't demonstrate friendship.

Doesn't demonstrate trustworthiness.

NATO and NORAD show that there are words on paper - and POTUS has amply demonstrated that he doesn't feel bound by such commitments, and Congress have abdicated their role in government.

God, I hate quoting PET on anything but:

Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt.

Pierre Trudeau

Regardless, we will always be the lesser neighbour on this continent. There is, however, no need to become paranoid about it.

 

[Maxman1]

I still dont know what is taking so long to buy them. Its obvious theyre going to win LUV. Its the only made in Canada option on the list.

Why not a Unimog made under license by General Dynamics, like the LVM program?

 

[ytz]

There is already rumours about Chunmoo being considered as a backup to HIMARS recently.

It's already approved. I don't think it's at risk. I have to check. But I don't think launchers themselves are listed in the DIS as key sovereign tech which have to be substantially Canadian sourced.

What could well matter more than the launchers is ammunition sourcing.

 

[ytz]

That's no reason to buy their equipment when there are other suppliers not actively trying to threaten our economy and our sovereignty.

The DIS doesn't say we won't buy American. It says we will maximize benefit to our industry. Any American OEM that puts a plant in Canada will get business.

 

[OldSolduer]

Trump, like all things, will pass.

Bide our time....

 

[ytz]

Trump, like all things, will pass.

Bide our time....

This is not reversing. The Americans are freaking out right now about Europe doing the same as Canada with "Buy European" clauses in their rearmament programs.

The Americans seemed to have thought they could bully allies and still get large defence contracts. Europe and Canada are now doing what South Korea and Japan have done.

 

[Furniture]

This is not reversing. The Americans are freaking out right now about Europe doing the same as Canada with "Buy European" clauses in their rearmament programs.

The Americans seemed to have thought they could bully allies and still get large defence contracts. Europe and Canada are now doing what South Korea and Japan have done.

100%

South Korea becoming an arms exporter is a direct result of how America treated them.

 

[Quirky]

100%

South Korea becoming an arms exporter is a direct result of how America treated them.

If only Canada could pull its head out of its ass and do the same.

 

[IKnowNothing]

If only Canada could pull its head out of its ass and do the same.

If only our business oriented sitting government with great experience organizing capital to pursue strategic objectives had identified the need to do just that and recently released some sort of directive to do so. A Military Industrial Policy or something like that.

 

[Furniture]

If only Canada could pull its head out of its ass and do the same.

That's what the DIS is supposed to be about doing. Bringing defense industry back to Canada, and investing in the R&D necessary to make our own kit that others want to buy.

 

[OldSolduer]

IF we started making our own arms, what do y’all think we’d start with?

 

[lenaitch]

IF we started making our own arms, what do y’all think we’d start with?

The left ones (sorry . . . I'll let myself out).