A-10 Warthog

[Kirkhill]

We're just going to ignore them getting shot down in the Gulf War, the invasion of Iraq and now in Iran, I guess.

No. I am suggesting that a useful milestone in a campaign would be achieving the conditions that would permit the A-10s to fly within airspace while suffering losses at a rate comparable to police officers in Canada.

We require police officers to risk their lives in order to establish a visible presence, among other beneficial tasks.

The A-10 does a better job than most aircraft of supplying a survivable platform.

 

[Kirkhill]

I sincerely doubt theres more or less psychological effect to the masses based on the platform.

Maybe not. But, which costs least to fly and which is most survivable? And which is available?

 

[markppcli]

Maybe not. But, which costs least to fly and which is most survivable? And which is available?

F16s are the most available platform in the US. The 6k vs 8k operating costs is probably offset by cross platform requirements and "survivable" isnt a suitably defined term, infact twice as many A10s were lost in the Gulf War as F16s.

Youre making the fundamental nerd error where you assume normal civilians have a far deeper understanding of what an A10 would signify than they actually do.

 

[YZT580]

F16s are the most available platform in the US. The 6k vs 8k operating costs is probably offset by cross platform requirements and "survivable" isnt a suitably defined term, infact twice as many A10s were lost in the Gulf War as F16s.

Youre making the fundamental nerd error where you assume normal civilians have a far deeper understanding of what an A10 would signify than they actually do.

When they were looking to evade capture and catch a ride home the downed pilots in Viet Nam will tell you that their favourite sound was that of an OV-10. I suspect that sentiment has been passed on to the A-10 from what I have read.

 

[ytz]

Youre making the fundamental nerd error where you assume normal civilians have a far deeper understanding of what an A10 would signify than they actually do.

More beyond that too. Who exactly is it that sees a plane coming towards them really fast and goes, "Well that's an F-16. Not an A-10. So it doesn't matter."

 

[ytz]

When they were looking to evade capture and catch a ride home the downed pilots in Viet Nam will tell you that their favourite sound was that of an OV-10. I suspect that sentiment has been passed on to the A-10 from what I have read.

Pilots are among the most hostile towards the platform. They care more about staying alive than living internet meme life.

 

[Kirkhill]

F16s are the most available platform in the US. The 6k vs 8k operating costs is probably offset by cross platform requirements and "survivable" isnt a suitably defined term, infact twice as many A10s were lost in the Gulf War as F16s.

Youre making the fundamental nerd error where you assume normal civilians have a far deeper understanding of what an A10 would signify than they actually do.

I am a nerd!

 

[markppcli]

Pilots are among the most hostile towards the platform. They care more about staying alive than living internet meme life.

You've obviously never met an A10 pilot, or a former one.

When they were looking to evade capture and catch a ride home the downed pilots in Viet Nam will tell you that their favourite sound was that of an OV-10. I suspect that sentiment has been passed on to the A-10 from what I have read.

I expect they prefer hearing a helicopter. Bit of a different role though, OV 10s controlled CSAR so you knew the mission was happening.

 

[ytz]

You've obviously never met an A10 pilot, or a former one.

Ever met any pilot who doesn't swear the equipment he's on is awesome?

 

[markppcli]

Ever met any pilot who doesn't swear the equipment he's on is awesome?

CF18 pilots, former A10 guys on F35, Griffin pilots, Cyclone Pilots... the Hungarians weren't huge Gripen fans. Oh uh the Poles didnt like any of their soviet helos.

 

[YZT580]

Pilots are among the most hostile towards the platform. They care more about staying alive than living internet meme life.

there wasn't any internet back then, just people trying to stay alive

 

[ytz]

CF18 pilots, former A10 guys on F35, Griffin pilots, Cyclone Pilots... the Hungarians weren't huge Gripen fans. Oh uh the Poles didnt like any of their soviet helos.

Ask them if they'd rather fly an A-10 in the same threat environnement.

 

[markppcli]

Ask them if they'd rather fly an A-10 in the same threat environnement.

Provide me an example !

Provides examples

No a more specific example to reaches my new goal post!

Im obviously not going to get into specific aircraft capabilities and why some pilots prefer x or y on an open board. This isnt Warthunder.

 

[ytz]

Provide me an example !

Provides examples

No a more specific example to reaches my new goal post!

Im obviously not going to get into specific aircraft capabilities and why some pilots prefer x or y on an open board. This isnt Warthunder.

I'm not trying to shift goalposts here. The USAF has tried to retire it for years because they know it's not survivable in a near-peer fight. Iran is proving this in spades. Bunch of A-10 drivers saying they love their machine during the GWOT years has no bearing on this.

 

[markppcli]

I'm not trying to shift goalposts here. The USAF has tried to retire it for years because they know it's not survivable in a near-peer fight. Iran is proving this in spades. Bunch of A-10 drivers saying they love their machine during the GWOT years has no bearing on this.

What you actually said was pilots hate it. Then said essentially that all pilots love third machines. If you'd written what you just did I'd agree, but you didn't.

 

[ytz]

What you actually said was pilots hate it. Then said essentially that all pilots love third machines. If you'd written what you just did I'd agree, but you didn't.

I said every pilot loves that kit. I stand by what I said. People are biased to what they operate. But put the dude in front of a map full of SAM threats and reality bites.

On topic, the assertion has been that the air force is just ignorant to want to kill this platform. That's not how this works.

GWOT: Full air supremacy. Any aircraft can deliver CAS.

Near-Peer: Windows of local air supremacy. Varying degrees of air control. CAS assignment based on priority and risk assessment of the JFACC and JFC. The less survivable a platform, the less it gets dispatched.

Some of you are setting up to make sure the people on the ground get less support.

Think of a Taiwan scenario. What exactly is the A-10 going to do during that war?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm not trying to shift goalposts here. The USAF has tried to retire it for years because they know it's not survivable in a near-peer fight. Iran is proving this in spades. Bunch of A-10 drivers saying they love their machine during the GWOT years has no bearing on this.

How many A10s has Iran shot down or damaged beyond repair ?

 

[markppcli]

How many A10s has Iran shot down or damaged beyond repair ?

So far 1, but they were the most shot down aircraft in the Gulf War.

I said every pilot loves that kit. I stand by what I said. People are biased to what they operate. But put the dude in front of a map full of SAM threats and reality bites.

To which i provided examples very much against. Thats youre experience, not a fact. Im fairly positive i work with a wider variety of pilot communities, especially fighters, than most people on this site. Love of their platform isn't universal and it certainly isnt baseless.

On topic, the assertion has been that the air force is just ignorant to want to kill this platform. That's not how this works.

GWOT: Full air supremacy. Any aircraft can deliver CAS.

Near-Peer: Windows of local air supremacy. Varying degrees of air control. CAS assignment based on priority and risk assessment of the JFACC and JFC. The less survivable a platform, the less it gets dispatched.

Some of you are setting up to make sure the people on the ground get less support.

Some are just seeing a role for cas specific air craft. Be that an A10 or an Su24.

Think of a Taiwan scenario. What exactly is the A-10 going to do during that war?

Silly suggestion, A10s won't be in Taiwan until the air war is basically won.

 

[ytz]

How many A10s has Iran shot down or damaged beyond repair ?

At least 1. And that's in a relatively low threat environment where they're only assuming MANPADS at this point. And where they are flying after F-35s have cleared out a lot of the heavier threats. There's no near-peer that will be this threat light. Heck, the MANPADS threat gets worse from here as hyperspectral and multispectral sensors get cheaper and better, Datalink gets better, AI gets better (for countermeasure rejection), etc.

 

[ytz]

Some are just seeing a role for cas specific air craft. Be that an A10 or an Su24.

That's what modern rotorcraft are for. An MV-75 has a 280 kt cruise, substantially longer endurance and about 70% of the payload. It's doing what an Apache would do at double the cruise speed.

Silly suggestion, A10s won't be in Taiwan until the air war is basically won.

An aircraft that can't contribute to the biggest threat scenario should probably not be such a large part of the fixed wing combat fleet. At least the F-15EX can contribute to a Taiwan fight.