CAF MP SUES DND AND SIG SAUER

[markppcli]

Yeah, if a pistol is your only weapon (lack of rifle mags indicate this) while you're standing around in the woods, you don't really have a weapon.

Why bother.

Im more bothered by the "Hey here's this expensive holster thats fitted to keep stuff away from the trigger mechanism and has 3 different mounting options"

"Yeah ill jusr jam it in my empty mag pouc thanks"

@brihard they're issued good holsters with thigh, drop leg, and molle attachment options.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Im more bothered by the "Hey here's this expensive holster thats fitted to keep stuff away from the trigger mechanism and has 3 different mounting options"

Yep, very valid points.

 

[brihard]

Im more bothered by the "Hey here's this expensive holster thats fitted to keep stuff away from the trigger mechanism and has 3 different mounting options"

"Yeah ill jusr jam it in my empty mag pouc thanks"

@brihard they're issued good holsters with thigh, drop leg, and molle attachment options.

FFS

 

[MilEME09]

Im more bothered by the "Hey here's this expensive holster thats fitted to keep stuff away from the trigger mechanism and has 3 different mounting options"

"Yeah ill jusr jam it in my empty mag pouc thanks"

@brihard they're issued good holsters with thigh, drop leg, and molle attachment options.

And any NCO on the line should kick them off right away. The issued holster is mandated as part of the safety system for the pistol. Trying ti do something else should get you kicked off the range immediately. This was heavily emphasized to us in the train the trainer course. If someone NDs or god forbid shoots them selves and they didnt use the authorized holster, they would automatically be liable for not using the pistol as directed.

 

[Booter]

In most cases, the way our ROE are written, drawing to point and racking to chamber a round were seen as an escalation step demonstrating our resolve and intent to use deadly force.

I was on a team in another federal department where the “rack” was an actual use of force technique during a longer static event. Rounds were examined post incident etc and so things like a .223 where there was an indentation on the primer was investigated as an unreported use of force.

you just needed to report and explain why you skipped ahead. There were lots of reasons why you did.

Strange times. But your comment reminded me of that.

 

[McG]

Im more bothered by the "Hey here's this expensive holster thats fitted to keep stuff away from the trigger mechanism and has 3 different mounting options"

"Yeah ill jusr jam it in my empty mag pouc thanks"

I suspect the field force guerrilla war against the Tac Vest has build a culture where everyone other than "the system" knows best what they need for their own load carriage.

 

[Haggis]

I was on a team in another federal department where the “rack” was an actual use of force technique during a longer static event. Rounds were examined post incident etc and so things like a .223 where there was an indentation on the primer was investigated as an unreported use of force.

you just needed to report and explain why you skipped ahead. There were lots of reasons why you did.

Strange times. But your comment reminded me of that.

During the G8/G20 conference in 2010, the ROE were updated and redistributed almost daily. In one instance, an updated ROE card was issued with a glaring omission allowing soldiers to go from presence and verbal intervention to lethal force in a heartbeat as several paragraphs were dropped during editing. Needless to say, the CO and I put an immediate stop to the distribution of those cards.

 

[brihard]

During the G8/G20 conference in 2010, the ROE were updated and redistributed almost daily. In one instance, an updated ROE card was issued with a glaring omission allowing soldiers to go from presence and verbal intervention to lethal force in a heartbeat as several paragraphs were dropped during editing. Needless to say, the CO and I put an immediate stop to the distribution of those cards.

I remember during workup in Borden, you hanging out watching me and my section run through and then AAR one of the use of force escalation scenarios.

 

[KevinB]

I was on a team in another federal department where the “rack” was an actual use of force technique during a longer static event. Rounds were examined post incident etc and so things like a .223 where there was an indentation on the primer was investigated as an unreported use of force.

Ugh. It is crazy how some things got established.

you just needed to report and explain why you skipped ahead. There were lots of reasons why you did.

Strange times. But your comment reminded me of that.

I mean my version of cruiser ready was always round chambered safety on, I never got the concept of not having a round chambered. If I am at the point I am pointing a carbine/rifle at someone, I am at the point that Mr Safety is having thumb pressure on it ready to come off.

But I mean we can roll back to Cyprus where the Magazine was ‘safely’ buttoned in a pocket to ensure you took forever chambering a round if it was needed.

 

[KevinB]

I suspect the field force guerrilla war against the Tac Vest has build a culture where everyone other than "the system" knows best what they need for their own load carriage.

So I will say I have carried pistols that way, and seem a lot of folks in certain units do it as well.

That said it has always when driving - and never done with something like the Sig P320/C22/M17 handguns…

 

[markppcli]

I suspect the field force guerrilla war against the Tac Vest has build a culture where everyone other than "the system" knows best what they need for their own load carriage.

This isnt a load carriage issue, the member is infact wearing issue load carriage, its a safe weapons handling issue.

 

[Fabius]

That specific member is setting the standard for the entire MNB-L.

 

[Jarnhamar]

View attachment 100028

That specific member is setting the standard for the entire MNB-L.

Love seeing dudes wearing face cam with bright armpatches.

But I mean we can roll back to Cyprus where the Magazine was ‘safely’ buttoned in a pocket to ensure you took forever chambering a round if it was needed.

I was issued a browning, mags, and ammo once in Canada (transporting weapons)with the caveat that the ammunition had to stay in the cardboard box and stashed under the seat. Thought that was rather brilliant.

 

[MH2022]

I suspect the field force guerrilla war against the Tac Vest has build a culture where everyone other than "the system" knows best what they need for their own load carriage.

I'd say the exact opposite. That having everyone try to use that vest in every role for 20 years caused us to forget there's more than just mag pouches, grenade pouches, and C9 pouches and everyone learned just to jam everything where it fit including the classic 9 mm in the mag pouch.

 

[Haggis]

I remember during workup in Borden, you hanging out watching me and my section run through and then AAR one of the use of force escalation scenarios.

Some of those scenarios were dumb as hell. "Population Encounters - How to deal with civilians." 50 % of his TF were P Res who were "civilians" only a short few days prior.

The most challenging part of that deployment was the Commander and his daily dress state directives. No dark lenses allowed in BEW because it was "intimidating". Donning gloves in view of the public was considered an escalation of force. And the best was he wanted 100% uniformity despite that 50% of his task force were P Res from every unit in Ontario. Good thing it was a dry depolyment.

 

[brihard]

Some of those scenarios were dumb as hell. "Population Encounters - How to deal with civilians." 50 % of his TF were P Res who were "civilians" only a short few days prior.

The most challenging part of that deployment was the Commander and his daily dress state directives. No dark lenses allowed in BEW because it was "intimidating". Donning gloves in view of the public was considered an escalation of force. And the best was he wanted 100% uniformity despite that 50% of his task force were P Res from every unit in Ontario. Good thing it was a dry depolyment.

A third of my platoon were just back from 3-08. That didn’t save us from the breathless exhortations of some brigade class B guy who I think was a musician officer by trade to remember that we would be carrying “real bullets!”. That got quoted for years after.

 

[Haggis]

A third of my platoon were just back from 3-08. That didn’t save us from the breathless exhortations of some brigade class B guy who I think was a musician officer by trade to remember that we would be carrying “real bullets!”. That got quoted for years after.

Now that we both work in LE, I'll bet, like me, that you reflectively find some of those use of force scenarios to be even more absurd.

 

[brihard]

Now that we both work in LE, I'll bet, like me, that you reflectively find some of those use of force scenarios to be even more absurd.

I had suppressed those memories, thanks.

 

[Haggis]

I had suppressed those memories, thanks.

So had I until my driver from that deployment arrived at our College as a recruit about 7 years ago. While undergoing UoF training he brought up those scenarios during conversations with me.

 

[MilEME09]

View attachment 100028

That specific member is setting the standard for the entire MNB-L.

Regardless of rank id be lighting him up on safety grounds.