Continental Defence Corvette

[Underway]

And yet we still have them in preference to light ships and manned light houses.

Sometimes it is the least worst.

It's not in preference. It's the right tool for the right job. A lot of navigation aids have to be floating. You cant put a fixed light on top of a lot of dangers or in many places where the fixed one would become a hazard itself (like marking shallows or lanes).

 

[Kirkhill]

It's not in preference. It's the right tool for the right job. A lot of navigation aids have to be floating. You cant put a fixed light on top of a lot of dangers or in many places where the fixed one would become a hazard itself (like marking shallows or lanes).

I think my point is: no matter how we slice it there seems to be an awful lot of attention being paid to uncrewed, automated solutions.

And lots of small units instead of one big one.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It was supporting technology that made electric lit buoys possible, first battery tech and then solar. Gas lit buoys were a real headache and dangerous. Light ships were basically big buoys to enable a reliable light. Lighthouses went through the same process, but require less maintenance aas they are fixed, normally 1-2 times a year, however one automated lighthouse required a visit almost every month as the fancy automated fog horn failed again and again. Also at the time CCG was actively getting out of the Navaid business and reduced the numbers of beacons, buoys and lighthouses significantly. That's been reversed as the LNG Terminals TERMPOLS indicated a lack of aids as a major risk factor.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

To paraphrase the Dursley's: "There's no such thing as too many navaids".

 

[calculus]

Chuck Hill of US Coast Guard fame did an interesting piece on the CDC:

Canada’s Team Vigilance OPV Continental Defense Corvette–an Update

We talked about this project with a post May 31, 2023. As you can see reading the flyer above, these ships are still a long way from being finished, but I think Canada may be recognizing a need to…

chuckhillscgblog.net

 

[Czech_pivo]

Chuck Hill of US Coast Guard fame did an interesting piece on the CDC:

Canada’s Team Vigilance OPV Continental Defense Corvette–an Update

We talked about this project with a post May 31, 2023. As you can see reading the flyer above, these ships are still a long way from being finished, but I think Canada may be recognizing a need to…

chuckhillscgblog.net

Doesn't talk about the subs and doesn't realize that there will be 6 AOPS not 5.

Hope that he's dead wrong about the Rivers being moved down to 5 from 15.

 

[suffolkowner]

Chuck Hill of US Coast Guard fame did an interesting piece on the CDC:

Canada’s Team Vigilance OPV Continental Defense Corvette–an Update

We talked about this project with a post May 31, 2023. As you can see reading the flyer above, these ships are still a long way from being finished, but I think Canada may be recognizing a need to…

chuckhillscgblog.net

"They have more than adequate shipbuilding capacity." We do?
"Maybe they should look at the Finnish Pohjanmaa class, which has an even smaller complement." Mentioned here multiple times

Article seems focused on manning while ignoring increase in subs and addition of JSS/AOR

 

[SeaKingTacco]

"They have more than adequate shipbuilding capacity." We do?
"Maybe they should look at the Finnish Pohjanmaa class, which has an even smaller complement." Mentioned here multiple times

Article seems focused on manning while ignoring increase in subs and addition of JSS/AOR

If you bring in Davie and the yards on the Great Lakes…maybe?

 

[suffolkowner]

If you bring in Davie and the yards on the Great Lakes…maybe?

Ontario Shipyards is certainly pushing the marketing, a match for Davie? So far Davie has not lived up to their hype IMO

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Ontario Shipyards is certainly pushing the marketing, a match for Davie? So far Davie has not lived up to their hype IMO

I’m not advocating.

I am trying to understand the author’s line of reasoning that Canada has adequate shipbuilding capacity.

 

[suffolkowner]

I’m not advocating.

I am trying to understand the author’s line of reasoning that Canada has adequate shipbuilding capacity.

Fair.
Davie has the
Polar IceBreaker
the 2 ferries
6 Program or Medium Icebreakers
Ontario Shipyards is pushing Vard I just wonder if they can do it alone and how much yard improvements they need done and then do we end up trying to support 4 yards instead of what the RCN and CCG need in term of ships

 

[Underway]

I’m not advocating.

I am trying to understand the author’s line of reasoning that Canada has adequate shipbuilding capacity.

I'm trying to understand the line of reasoning that we don't.

We have 2 fully sustainable yards without having to worry about boom bust. They are now staffed with trained people who are putting out acceptable results. They have a full order sheet to keep them working for 15 years.

Also if he assumes 5 Rivers and then CDCs that figures in. Adding CDC on top of current projects will likely create a boom bust yard as the corvette build won't be sustainable in the long run.

And of course there is Davie which has jumped in to backfill gaps and speed up the overall delivery schedule.

Seems like adequate capacity to me.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well if you decide not to keep your ships for a long time , you can do it. The first RCD will be 20+ years old when the final one is completed, I suggest that we sell it off to our allies while it still has a bit of life in it. Then repeat with RCD-Type II, replacing the oldest RCD- Type 1.

 

[KevinB]

Well if you decide not to keep your ships for a long time , you can do it. The first RCD will be 20+ years old when the final one is completed, I suggest that we sell it off to our allies while it still has a bit of life in it. Then repeat with RCD-Type II, replacing the oldest RCD- Type 1.

Rather than sell it, do a refit and mothball in case of…

I'm trying to understand the line of reasoning that we don't.

We have 2 fully sustainable yards without having to worry about boom bust. They are now staffed with trained people who are putting out acceptable results. They have a full order sheet to keep them working for 15 years.

Also if he assumes 5 Rivers and then CDCs that figures in. Adding CDC on top of current projects will likely create a boom bust yard as the corvette build won't be sustainable in the long run.

The CDC or LF, is assumably going to need to be replaced, as well as potentially surged if greater competition or hostilities break out.

And of course there is Davie which has jumped in to backfill gaps and speed up the overall delivery schedule.

Seems like adequate capacity to me.

I’m always concerned about adequate in the Canadian sense, as decades of fool me once has made me a heavy cynic.

 

[YZT580]

Rather than sell it, do a refit and mothball in case of…


The CDC or LF, is assumably going to need to be replaced, as well as potentially surged if greater competition or hostilities break out.

I’m always concerned about adequate in the Canadian sense, as decades of fool me once has made me a heavy cynic.

we bought re-fitted subs that had been tied up for a while. That didn't go so well. how well can you really conserve a ship that remains tied up in salt water and goes through Canadian winters?

 

[KevinB]

we bought re-fitted subs that had been tied up for a while. That didn't go so well. how well can you really conserve a ship that remains tied up in salt water and goes through Canadian winters?

CFS Bermuda?
Honestly not sure, the US Army and USN seem to be able to store ships, in a semi ready to go manner that keeps them relatively ship shape. Probably requires a fair amount of personnel and contractors on overhead - but I just hate the idea of ‘sailing’ ships past their usage, and like the idea of a reserve fleet to be able to surge if the time comes they are needed.

 

[Halifax Tar]

CFS Bermuda?
Honestly not sure, the US Army and USN seem to be able to store ships, in a semi ready to go manner that keeps them relatively ship shape. Probably requires a fair amount of personnel and contractors on overhead - but I just hate the idea of ‘sailing’ ships past their usage, and like the idea of a reserve fleet to be able to surge if the time comes they are needed.

We generally use our kit well well well past its best before date. Its really worth preserving.

If we did proper life cycle managment of our major equipment would have constant builds and retires and we could probably do this...

Hopefully things are changing... But my cynicism has taken hold...

 

[FJAG]

But my cynicism has taken hold...

A half century + of experience will do that to a person.

 

[Underway]

CFS Bermuda?
Honestly not sure, the US Army and USN seem to be able to store ships, in a semi ready to go manner that keeps them relatively ship shape. Probably requires a fair amount of personnel and contractors on overhead - but I just hate the idea of ‘sailing’ ships past their usage, and like the idea of a reserve fleet to be able to surge if the time comes they are needed.

Its a bit of a mirage. I don't think anyone seriously knows how much work it will take to bring some of them back to life. And in some cases they are just super expensive to dispose of (Sturgeon Class nuke boats as an example, just sitting there being all radioactive) and are not really reserve.

 

[Underway]

Rather than sell it, do a refit and mothball in case of…


The CDC or LF, is assumably going to need to be replaced, as well as potentially surged if greater competition or hostilities break out.

Perhaps. But we have yards that exist that could, with the design time/long lead items purchase be ready to build the CDC. Davie and Ontario shipyards have the space, perhaps not the workforce. But right now we're adequate.

I’m always concerned about adequate in the Canadian sense, as decades of fool me once has made me a heavy cynic.

This was a US guy who did that post so...

Also I'm worried about building out yards that will eventually come up to your heavy cynic being correct. Ontario shipyards goes all in, builds 20 CDC in 12 years then the gov't walks away. That's basically overcapacity. Whereas Seaspan and Iriving will never go away at this point. They are going to be steadily building ships forever. We're 15 years into the NSS and getting results.