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All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

Except that this pretends the Forever Canadian petition doesn’t exist. They succeeded; they crossed the threshold and the matter has been legally referred to the legislature. Smith is slow-rolling it with referral to a nearly dormant committee… But eventually they will be forced to either place it on the referendum ballot, or to force the legislature to vote on the matter and show their true colours.

Alberta voters should be profoundly disappointed in a provincial government unwilling to unequivocally say where they stand on a matter as fundamental as secession from Canada. It’s cowardly.
Danial Smith has stated she is not for separation. The UCP platform has stated they are not for separation.
"Alberta Premier Danielle Smith has stated she does not support Alberta separating from Canada. She formally supports a sovereign Alberta within a united Canada, focusing on regaining provincial constitutional rights and resisting federal policies rather than total independence"

"The United Conservative Party (UCP) official position is to support a "sovereign Alberta within a united Canada," focusing on increasing provincial autonomy rather than formal separation."

Does the party have members who support separation maybe, do they have members who are against abortion maybe, do they have member ho support liberal/ndp policies maybe.

I don't know how many times a person or party has to say something to be right. Unless you go off McKenna saying, "If you actually say it louder, we’ve learned in the House of Commons, if you repeat it, if you say it louder, if that is your talking point, people will totally believe it" Maybe this is what some of you are wanting to believe is true.
 
Danial Smith has stated she is not for separation. The UCP platform has stated they are not for separation.
"Alberta Premier Danielle Smith has stated she does not support Alberta separating from Canada. She formally supports a sovereign Alberta within a united Canada, focusing on regaining provincial constitutional rights and resisting federal policies rather than total independence"

"The United Conservative Party (UCP) official position is to support a "sovereign Alberta within a united Canada," focusing on increasing provincial autonomy rather than formal separation."

Does the party have members who support separation maybe, do they have members who are against abortion maybe, do they have member ho support liberal/ndp policies maybe.

I don't know how many times a person or party has to say something to be right. Unless you go off McKenna saying, "If you actually say it louder, we’ve learned in the House of Commons, if you repeat it, if you say it louder, if that is your talking point, people will totally believe it" Maybe this is what some of you are wanting to believe is true.
Actions speak louder than words.

Danielle Smith, through inaction alone, could have watched the separatist movement die. Every time, Danielle Smith has greased the road for separatists.

Canvasing take too long, with too high a bar? Lower it, lengthen the time.

Opposing referendum for Canadian unity which would mean the separatists couldn't run their referendum for a certain number of years? Slow walk it to death.

Courts deeming it unconstitutional? Change the legislation retroactively so it can go ahead anyways.

She can swear up and down that she doesn't support it, but every single one of her ACTIONS proves otherwise.

Or put another way, if someone is pissing on me while declaring it's rain, it doesn't make it rain.
 
Actions speak louder than words.

Danielle Smith, through inaction alone, could have watched the separatist movement die. Every time, Danielle Smith has greased the road for separatists.

Canvasing take too long, with too high a bar? Lower it, lengthen the time.

Opposing referendum for Canadian unity which would mean the separatists couldn't run their referendum for a certain number of years? Slow walk it to death.

Courts deeming it unconstitutional? Change the legislation retroactively so it can go ahead anyways.

She can swear up and down that she doesn't support it, but every single one of her ACTIONS proves otherwise.

Or put another way, if someone is pissing on me while declaring it's rain, it doesn't make it rain.
A Premier is there to help their constituents. As long as they are acting legally and within bounds, she is there to help. Not intentionally fuck some of them over because you don't agree with them or their premise. She doesn't have to agree with it, but she does have to treat all Albertans fairly.
 
A Premier is there to help their constituents. As long as they are acting legally and within bounds, she is there to help. Not intentionally fuck some of them over because you don't agree with them or their premise. She doesn't have to agree with it, but she does have to treat all Albertans fairly.
Shame those forever Canada Albertans are not her constituents.
 
Danial Smith has stated she is not for separation. The UCP platform has stated they are not for separation.
"Alberta Premier Danielle Smith has stated she does not support Alberta separating from Canada. She formally supports a sovereign Alberta within a united Canada, focusing on regaining provincial constitutional rights and resisting federal policies rather than total independence"

"The United Conservative Party (UCP) official position is to support a "sovereign Alberta within a united Canada," focusing on increasing provincial autonomy rather than formal separation."

Does the party have members who support separation maybe, do they have members who are against abortion maybe, do they have member ho support liberal/ndp policies maybe.

I don't know how many times a person or party has to say something to be right. Unless you go off McKenna saying, "If you actually say it louder, we’ve learned in the House of Commons, if you repeat it, if you say it louder, if that is your talking point, people will totally believe it" Maybe this is what some of you are wanting to believe is true.

So she wants to mirror Que somewhat. Why not ? What's good for one is good for all, no ?
 
Danial Smith has stated she is not for separation. The UCP platform has stated they are not for separation.
"Alberta Premier Danielle Smith has stated she does not support Alberta separating from Canada. She formally supports a sovereign Alberta within a united Canada, focusing on regaining provincial constitutional rights and resisting federal policies rather than total independence"

"The United Conservative Party (UCP) official position is to support a "sovereign Alberta within a united Canada," focusing on increasing provincial autonomy rather than formal separation."

Does the party have members who support separation maybe, do they have members who are against abortion maybe, do they have member ho support liberal/ndp policies maybe.

I don't know how many times a person or party has to say something to be right. Unless you go off McKenna saying, "If you actually say it louder, we’ve learned in the House of Commons, if you repeat it, if you say it louder, if that is your talking point, people will totally believe it" Maybe this is what some of you are wanting to believe is true.

They would only need to say it once- if their actions matched. But when you say something ten or a hundred or a thousand times yet act in the opposite way, for everyone to see, your deeds belie your words and your words mean little to nothing.

She has instead made choice after choice to enabled and embolden the separatists.

The UCP has explicitly embraced the Citizen Initiative process as a recognized way for force the provincial government to a separation referendum. They did not have to do this, it was a choice. The correct answer to separatists could have been “go form a party and get elected”.

When it became apparent that the Citizen Initiative process would make it hard to get the necessary signatures for separation, they specifically had the necessary threshold lowered, and the amount of time to collect signatures lengthened by a month. They did not have to do this, it was a choice. The correct answer to separatists could have been “you can put in the same work and achieve the same threshold as everyone else”.

A competing petition that would put the question of reaffirming remaining in Canada did succeed under the old, higher threshold. She has buried that in committee and basically pretended like it doesn’t exist. The legislature changed the law to remove the deadline to act on the successful petition. They didn’t have to do that, that was also a choice. The correct answer would have been to either promptly schedule a referendum on that one essential question, or alternatively to put the question as-is to a vote in the legislature.

When the separatists filed their petition, it was referred by the Chief Electoral Officer to the courts for review, and was struck down as posing an unconstitutional question and violating treaty rights. The legislature again changed to rules, removing the power of the Chief Electoral Officer to have a question reviewed by a court for constitutionality. They specifically changed the rules to let an explicitly unconstitutional referendum question go forward. They didn’t have to do that, that was a choice.

When the separatists were arguing in court over the constitutional matter, the provincial government had their own legal counsel argue in favour of continuing the petition process, and against a judicial order staying it. They argued against the same constitutional and treaty concerns that had already see. The courts rule against the petition once earlier. This was also a choice.

So, whatever the UCP says, they’re standing there yapping with their thumb visibly on the scale. Their words are in plain conflict with their actions. At every step they have coddled and enabled the separatists.

I believE @QV called incorrectly yesterday, that the UCP will not actually meaningfully commit and will blow with the wind:
My estimate: The UCP are going to sit this one out until after the referendum (on leaving), for now they will fence sit like they've been doing.

If the 'leave' votes wins you will see the UCP pivot to be the Parti Albertois and will aggressively advance the next phases to follow.

If the "leave" vote loses, status quo, the issue loses some steam and goes away for a little while. The UCP will not risk becoming openly separatist without a clear referendum win on 'Leave' for fear of splitting the party, and risk the NDP to run up the middle again next election.

But, while they presently hang against the flagpole waiting to be told which way to flap, it’s clear which way they hope the wind blows.
 
study confirms what we all know, foreign interference within the separatist movement

Reeeeeaaaaaaaaaalllllllyyyyyyy?

Wow!

That's nutssssssss

Oh My God Reaction GIF


Sarcasm aside, everyone knows this. From foreign youtube channels to direct talks to the trump administration, very little about this "movement" is organic.
 
I hope Alberta gets this vote. IMHO it needs to happen.

And it may happen a few times.
I feel like you've handwaved away a dozen or so issues around this "movement" that you would not be forgiving about if let's say the LPC or parti quebecois we're the ones doing it.

Foreign interference,doxxing a province, domestic violence, direct talks with foreign goverbments, foreign youtube account, all of this doesn't bother you in the least?

Well, i for one am happy that this is your bar now and im sure when the LPC does something a tenth as bad as any of this you and others will be totally chill.
 
yes however it needs to happen fairly, with the privacy breech, if any fake signatures are found the entire thing should be thrown out, and forced to start again.


AB privacy commissioner will make a statement tomorrow, as will the feds

A court,at some level,is going to throw this out.

It will be a wonderful day for Canada when that happens.
 
Once we know all the details about the CCP interference in Canadian elections including the involvement with sitting MPs, we can talk about the rest. Until then - it's not a serious matter.

A court,at some level,is going to throw this out.

It will be a wonderful day for Canada when that happens.

That will do more for dividing this country than simply letting the vote happen. But, given your position on most everything, I guess that is what you want.
 
Once we know all the details about the CCP interference in Canadian elections including the involvement with sitting MPs, we can talk about the rest. Until then - it's not a serious matter.



That will do more for dividing this country than simply letting the vote happen. But, given your position on most everything, I guess that is what you want.
If they cannot follow the rules without doxxing an entire province and falsely adding names to their petition, then they cannot get a referendum. Sorry not sorry.

Rules are rules,laws are laws. Unless you're saying rules should not apply to them?
 
I don't know what the allegations are or if they are even valid. Bottom line there is serious independence sentiment in that province that can't be ignored. The question can be put on the referendum whether or not there is a citizens petition. The larger question is this; what is Ottawa going to do about it? The MOUs with built in vetos are not going to cut it.
 
I feel like you've handwaved away a dozen or so issues around this "movement" that you would not be forgiving about if let's say the LPC or parti quebecois we're the ones doing it.

Foreign interference,doxxing a province, domestic violence, direct talks with foreign goverbments, foreign youtube account, all of this doesn't bother you in the least?

Well, i for one am happy that this is your bar now and im sure when the LPC does something a tenth as bad as any of this you and others will be totally chill.

Foreign interference doesn't seem to bother any government to the least. We still don't know which MPs are connected to the Chinese. Don't preach interference at me until the Feds do the right thing and clean their own house first. Until then its obvious no one really cares.

In your rage over some people wanting to separate you loose of the trees for the forest.

Not allowing this vote to happen will do more damage to national unity than letting it happen.

As Mr. Julien my grade 7 teacher told me, sometimes you have to let the two kids fight.
 
Hold a vote. It looks like an easy win and achieves a useful aim, and is comparatively low-cost.

Some "separatists" are just fanning the flames to grease further assertion of provincial rights within Canada, not to grease secession. It's a political play.

Governments that want fewer furballs have the options to spend more money on things the discontented want and to make a conscious effort to avoid unnecessary provocations. If they don't want to do that, they can deal with dissent. That's the tradeoff. Majorities - even supermajorities - can't do absolutely anything they want without consequences. People worried about violence should pay a lot of attention to the fact that the more complex things become, the easier it is to create expensive remediation problems.
 
Foreign interference doesn't seem to bother any government to the least. We still don't know which MPs are connected to the Chinese. Don't preach interference at me until the Feds do the right thing and clean their own house first. Until then its obvious no one really cares.

In your rage over some people wanting to separate you loose of the trees for the forest.

Not allowing this vote to happen will do more damage to national unity than letting it happen.

As Mr. Julien my grade 7 teacher told me, sometimes you have to let the two kids fight.
Let them fight, sure. But within the rules. I doubt mr Julian would let one seven grader smash another seven grader in the face with a rock.

If these folks cannot do their referendum within the confines of the rules, too had for them, they deserve their pathetic little hissy fit thrown out until they can do it properly.

Rules are rules,laws are laws.
 
I don't know what the allegations are or if they are even valid. Bottom line there is serious independence sentiment in that province that can't be ignored. The question can be put on the referendum whether or not there is a citizens petition. The larger question is this; what is Ottawa going to do about it? The MOUs with built in vetos are not going to cut it.
If danielle smith puts this in the referendum she's a separatist.

Full stop.

Which she is already, but it would remove any plausible deniability, and she can go into the next provincial election with that label firmly attached to her.
 
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