Informing the Army’s Future Structure - CAMO Discussion

[markppcli]

Again when the earth was young RCAC School in Borden had a bunch of Sherman hulls as D&M trainers, used in Borden/Meaford. What's todays answer?
g

There were leos in Gagetown for training but they've since all moved to Ed.onton to train at unit level.

 

[KevinB]

There were leos in Gagetown for training but they've since all moved to Ed.onton to train at unit level.

So the Armoured School isn’t…

Canada (well the CA) wants to have 2 RegF Armoured Reg’ts. Now that is ~90 MBT’s, simply for operational units.
One would need at least a Squadron + for training at the Armoured School.
Plus ones for the RCEME folks to use for training on maintenance.
Then ARV’s, and ideally AVLB’s and dedicated Heavy Engineering systems (both Breachers and Earth Moving variants).

IMHO it would be better off with 3-4 Hybrid Armoured Regiments - or 1 Regimental entity with 4 Armoured Battalions of Hybrid 30/70 formations.

Of course then that predicates a mech armor outlook that runs head first into the CA’s 1,000,000 LAV army. Given what @Underway posted elsewhere it appears that 4-5k LAV force is in Canada’s Army future - so GFL with that.

That would at least motorize a lot of PRes entities - but doesn’t solve a lot of the off road mobility issues.

I had really hoped the CA would adopt a tracked IFV for at least 2 Brigades.

 

[PrairieFella]

So the Armoured School isn’t…

Canada (well the CA) wants to have 2 RegF Armoured Reg’ts. Now that is ~90 MBT’s, simply for operational units.

120 MBTs min with no op stock or trainers. Sqn = 20.

One would need at least a Squadron + for training at the Armoured School.

20 would be good.

 

[Halifax Tar]

What do we need to sustain casualties ? Because once someone starts blowing up our tanks its too late to look for replacements.

We need to think beyond the TO&E of regiments and schools.

 

[Underway]

So the Armoured School isn’t…

Canada (well the CA) wants to have 2 RegF Armoured Reg’ts. Now that is ~90 MBT’s, simply for operational units.
One would need at least a Squadron + for training at the Armoured School.
Plus ones for the RCEME folks to use for training on maintenance.
Then ARV’s, and ideally AVLB’s and dedicated Heavy Engineering systems (both Breachers and Earth Moving variants).

IMHO it would be better off with 3-4 Hybrid Armoured Regiments - or 1 Regimental entity with 4 Armoured Battalions of Hybrid 30/70 formations.

Of course then that predicates a mech armor outlook that runs head first into the CA’s 1,000,000 LAV army. Given what @Underway posted elsewhere it appears that 4-5k LAV force is in Canada’s Army future - so GFL with that.

That would at least motorize a lot of PRes entities - but doesn’t solve a lot of the off road mobility issues.

I had really hoped the CA would adopt a tracked IFV for at least 2 Brigades.

The MCAV program from that same information would add 250 - 500 tracked medium cavalry. I have no idea what that is supposed to look like. I assume CV90/Bradley style with 4 dismounts possible. But that's not going to help with infantry tracked mobility. Given what the rumours are stating though it won't be just IFV style MCAV, there will be a family of vehicles to support, so perhaps they will have a tracked APC style variant (Dutch Armadillo CV90 as an example) which can be modified for supply, ambulance, recovery, engineering etc...

 

[KevinB]

The MCAV program from that same information would add 250 - 500 tracked medium cavalry. I have no idea what that is supposed to look like. I assume CV90/Bradley style with 4 dismounts possible. But that's not going to help with infantry tracked mobility. Given what the rumours are stating though it won't be just IFV style MCAV, there will be a family of vehicles to support, so perhaps they will have a tracked APC style variant (Dutch Armadillo CV90 as an example) which can be modified for supply, ambulance, recovery, engineering etc...

My concern is with ~5k LAV, ~500 CFV’s who crew these? Especially if there are more Tracked IFV/APC in the matrix.

Don’t get me wrong I think more equipment is fantastic. But if a BN has ~100 vehicles that is a lot of vehicles, even if you have a 100% War Stock.

 

[Underway]

My concern is with ~5k LAV, ~500 CFV’s who crew these? Especially if there are more Tracked IFV/APC in the matrix.

Don’t get me wrong I think more equipment is fantastic. But if a BN has ~100 vehicles that is a lot of vehicles, even if you have a 100% War Stock.

Honestly, the info points to 1280 sitting as warstock. The army's goal for current-future CAF operations is ~3800. The ~5080 number would be for mobilization and casualty replacement. That's 3800 all variants as far as I can tell, which means ambulances, engineering vehicles, supply etc... It's very big hand small map at this point.

 

[KevinB]

Honestly, the info points to 1280 sitting as warstock. The army's goal for current-future CAF operations is ~3800. The ~5080 number would be for mobilization and casualty replacement. That's 3800 all variants as far as I can tell. It's very big hand small map at this point.

OMFG that almost sounds like a plan.

 

[Kirkhill]

Because fewer and fewer men grow up doing this anymore.

Related : fewer people doing this either


And thus neither cavalry nor infantry for any environment.

 

[Underway]

OMFG that almost sounds like a plan.

S**ts getting real up here man. Full paradigm change. It's not like we can't make plans, we just never had the governments support and funding to do so.

 

[MilEME09]

S**ts getting real up here man. Full paradigm change. It's not like we can't make plans, we just never had the governments support and funding to do so.

Yeah projects used to get the bare minimum, now its like okay whats the min to meet our commitments? 4 brigades plus training and op stock? Okay order that. Some projects like ERC have seen massive growth in how many we are ordering, from the barr minimum to actually what our doctrine says we should have.

 

[MacNav63]

Yeah projects used to get the bare minimum, now its like okay whats the min to meet our commitments? 4 brigades plus training and op stock? Okay order that. Some projects like ERC have seen massive growth in how many we are ordering, from the barr minimum to actually what our doctrine says we should have.

Have we seen anything like this in Canada since the 50s? It strikes me that even under Mulroney in the 80s there was still a lot of "bare minimum."

 

[KevinB]

Have we seen anything like this in Canada since the 50s? It strikes me that even under Mulroney in the 80s there was still a lot of "bare minimum."

The 3/4 of Century of Darkness.

 

[Underway]

Yeah projects used to get the bare minimum, now its like okay whats the min to meet our commitments? 4 brigades plus training and op stock? Okay order that. Some projects like ERC have seen massive growth in how many we are ordering, from the barr minimum to actually what our doctrine says we should have.

The budget change was announced on a Tuesday. On Monday I had asked about our TD budget and was told it was basically zero for the rest of the month. On Thurs my boss knocked on my office door and told me the TD budget was "for all intents and purposes is unlimited now" and the plan was a go. We could never spend it and still be responsible (because a big budget doesn't absolve us of being good stewards of the tax dollars).

 

[MilEME09]

The budget change was announced on a Tuesday. On Monday I had asked about our TD budget and was told it was basically zero for the rest of the month. On Thurs my boss knocked on my office door and told me the TD budget was "for all intents and purposes is unlimited now" and the plan was a go. We could never spend it and still be responsible (because a big budget doesn't absolve us of being good stewards of the tax dollars).

Yeah I was recently told if I need tools, the budget is there. I immediately put in a 2227 for new tool boxes for my 2 techs going through DP1 right now (cause until now we shared a tool box between techs, thats a different long story)

 

[daftandbarmy]

The budget change was announced on a Tuesday. On Monday I had asked about our TD budget and was told it was basically zero for the rest of the month. On Thurs my boss knocked on my office door and told me the TD budget was "for all intents and purposes is unlimited now" and the plan was a go. We could never spend it and still be responsible (because a big budget doesn't absolve us of being good stewards of the tax dollars).

It's a Bull Market...