The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Colin Parkinson]

One possibility is that Canada will continue with a slow increase in F35 up to 60-88, meanwhile Saab and Canada agrees to move production here with a promise of X number of airframes for Canada and Ukraine. This gives the Liberals a lot of opportunities to make announcements and show they are not buying just (insert evil US equipment here) Whether or not that it happens, is immaterial, as they just blame meddling or changing circumstances.

 

[Altair]

You’re a pretty anti-US fellow aren’t you?
I’m just pissed at the shortsightedness of Trump and his Merry Band of Thieves, you sound more and more like your painting 340m people with a giant brush.
With your approach we’d still be pissed of with the Germans and the Japanese for something that happened 80yrs ago and they learned their lesson from.

America has voted in Trump and (insert what you said because you have less strikes here than I do and I have been told to not call anyone including the President of the United States anything that might be conceived as a insult) twice now. This is not an aberration. The USA will have been run by Trump for 8 of the last 12 years by 2028. And MAGA doesn't end with Trump. Up to and until MAGA is purged from the republican party, assume that MAGA is due to be elected every 4 years and will do a lot of the same stuff.

So if we are to be dealing with Trump or a Trump lite figure every 4 years, we cannot trust them, and we certainly cannot rely on them. That counts for trade, military alliances, and military procurement.

The most foolish thing anyone can do at this juncture is assume everything will go back to normal once Trump is out of office. We don't have the luxury of being that naive.

 

[Eaglelord17]

You’re a pretty anti-US fellow aren’t you?
I’m just pissed at the shortsightedness of Trump and his Merry Band of Thieves, you sound more and more like your painting 340m people with a giant brush.
With your approach we’d still be pissed of with the Germans and the Japanese for something that happened 80yrs ago and they learned their lesson from.

Did Japan? Last I checked Japan still refuses to acknowledge the war crimes they committed and apologize for them (and their war crimes make the Nazis seem tame).

One possibility is that Canada will continue with a slow increase in F35 up to 60-88, meanwhile Saab and Canada agrees to move production here with a promise of X number of airframes for Canada and Ukraine. This gives the Liberals a lot of opportunities to make announcements and show they are not buying just (insert evil US equipment here) Whether or not that it happens, is immaterial, as they just blame meddling or changing circumstances.

Even if we get the Gripen and it doesn’t work out for us, we can always sell them off second hand to some middle/low power country which would be happy to have them.

If it does work out all the better.

 

[OldSolduer]

Did Japan? Last I checked Japan still refuses to acknowledge the war crimes they committed and apologize for them (and their war crimes make the Nazis seem tame).

Well said sir. And Unit 731 IIRC was the nastiest of all.

 

[KevinB]

I must have missed the Japanese running mass extermination camps across Asia?
Yes there where some nasty crimes committed by Imperial Japanese forces, but but they where not running a genocidal extermination program.

 

[YZT580]

I must have missed the Japanese running mass extermination camps across Asia?
Yes there where some nasty crimes committed by Imperial Japanese forces, but but they where not running a genocidal extermination program.

ask the Canadian soldiers building a railroad through Burma about that> Oh wait many of them were exterminated through disease, malnutrition, and beatings. Ask the friendship women from China. Ask the folks who starved to death because all the rations went to their army. The death toll in their concentration camps was extremely high as well. But no, they didn't have any incinerators or poison gas showers so I suppose you could get away with not calling it genocidal but it was definitely an extermination programme. (PLEASE not the correct spelling for programme

 

[Czech_pivo]

Did Japan? Last I checked Japan still refuses to acknowledge the war crimes they committed and apologize for them (and their war crimes make the Nazis seem tame).

True - 100% true

 

[Kirkhill]

GCAP doing what the F35 used to do would be ideal.

Best of British on that one...

https://www.economist.com/britain/2026/06/05/warning-signs-from-two-rival-fighter-jet-projects

 

[OldSolduer]

I must have missed the Japanese running mass extermination camps across Asia?
Yes there where some nasty crimes committed by Imperial Japanese forces, but but they where not running a genocidal extermination program.

They weren’t but Unit 731 was their research unit. Medical research. Apparently even the Nazis were WTF??

 

[Kirkhill]

I must have missed the Japanese running mass extermination camps across Asia?
Yes there where some nasty crimes committed by Imperial Japanese forces, but but they where not running a genocidal extermination program.

The Rape of Nanking — Vancouver Public Library

The Rape of Nanking — Chang, Iris — In December 1937, in what was then the capital of China, one of the most brutal massacres in the long annals of wartime barbarity occurred. The Japanese army swept into the ancient city of Nanking (Nanjing) and within weeks not only looted and burned the...

vpl.bibliocommons.com

And further to...

STATISTICS OF JAPANESE GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER

Somewhere between 3 and 30 million depending on who you are asking.

 

[Altair]

Best of British on that one...

https://www.economist.com/britain/2026/06/05/warning-signs-from-two-rival-fighter-jet-projects

The UK being broke since brexit does not mean the goal of the project is not worthy.

Is the F35 program inherently bad? No, pooled resources and a global supply chain is good for economy of scale. The issue has arisen that when one partner runs the program outright and everyone else joins in, it leaves the partner that runs the program with leverage over the rest that can be used in nefarious ways.

A more coequal program is the solution, but when you have many chefs in the kitchen, you're going to have these sorts of hiccups. But I would trust GCAP infinitely more than placing our security and procurement in the hands of the americans again.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I must have missed the Japanese running mass extermination camps across Asia?
Yes there where some nasty crimes committed by Imperial Japanese forces, but but they where not running a genocidal extermination program.

They didn’t need extermination camps, they just killed them on the spot or dragged them away to be worked to death. Their slave labour had a 10-20% death rate in 7 years.

It was also fairly genocidal in nature, the Japanese believed they were superior and as such could remove the inferior without consequences. They even celebrated it, a lot of the known war crimes are only known because they took photos of it for personal usage. How many other countries published about officers competing to see who could behead 100 people first?

The estimates of death caused by the Japanese in WWII range from 3 million at the low end to 30 million at the high end. It also depends on how far back you wish to go, the Japanese were acting horribly from about 1895-1945.

Japanese war crimes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I wouldn’t say they committed ‘some’ nasty crimes, they basically committed them all and were actively committing them without remorse or attempts to hide it. It wasn’t a few rogue units, it was the whole establishment.

We don’t teach much on Japanese war crimes intentionally, Germany gets the lions share by a long shot. Japan in my opinion was worse. And that isn’t to downplay German events, rather to highlight Japans crimes.

 

[Czech_pivo]

America has voted in Trump and (insert what you said because you have less strikes here than I do and I have been told to not call anyone including the President of the United States anything that might be conceived as a insult) twice now. This is not an aberration. The USA will have been run by Trump for 8 of the last 12 years by 2028. And MAGA doesn't end with Trump. Up to and until MAGA is purged from the republican party, assume that MAGA is due to be elected every 4 years and will do a lot of the same stuff.
Y
So if we are to be dealing with Trump or a Trump lite figure every 4 years, we cannot trust them, and we certainly cannot rely on them. That counts for trade, military alliances, and military procurement.

The most foolish thing anyone can do at this juncture is assume everything will go back to normal once Trump is out of office. We don't have the luxury of being that naive.

Do you remember anything about another group of wing nuts in the US called the Tea Party? Where are they now? Politically dead and gone. Maga will be swept into the dustbin of history, whether it’s in 3-4 yrs or 9-10yrs, either way they will be gone.

 

[Altair]

Do you remember anything about another group of wing nuts in the US called the Tea Party? Where are they now? Politically dead and gone. Maga will be swept into the dustbin of history, whether it’s in 3-4 yrs or 9-10yrs, either way they will be gone.

The tea party never took over the party, the tea party never won the presidency, never mind twice.

The Republican party is MAGA.

Polling shows growing number of Republicans identify with the MAGA movement

More than one-third of registered voters identified themselves as MAGA supporters in March's NBC News poll. That includes 71% of Republicans.

www.nbcnews.com

Thirty-six percent of registered voters identified themselves as MAGA supporters in the March NBC News poll. It’s a significant increase from past NBC News polling — up from 23% of respondents in a merged sample of all of NBC News’ polling across 2023 and 27% of respondents in a merged sample of NBC News’ 2024 polling.


The overall share is powered by the 71% of Republicans who now call themselves MAGA supporters.

So no, this isn't going to the dustbin of history. This is the present reality. So we get the internationalists in the Democrats, to the limits that in and of itself represents, and then the burn it all down MAGA in the republicans. And if they were willing to vote in Trump not once but twice, they will continue to vote in MAGA presidents who have less baggage, and to our chagrin, may actually be smarter in their excecution of their isolationalist policies. So we need to insulate ourselves, both in NATO and Canada, from that eventuality. That means we cannot just assume that things go back to normal. The Americans need to prove to us, and to the world that MAGA is gone, until then, just assume they are a 4 year election cycle away.

That means on trade, we cannot trust or rely on them.

In military alliances, we cannot trust or rely on them.

In territorial integrity, we cannot trust or rely on them.

And in relation to this thread, in terms of military procurement, we cannot trust or rely on them.

 

[Kirkhill]

The tea party never took over the party, the tea party never won the presidency, never mind twice.

The Republican party is MAGA.

Polling shows growing number of Republicans identify with the MAGA movement

More than one-third of registered voters identified themselves as MAGA supporters in March's NBC News poll. That includes 71% of Republicans.

www.nbcnews.com

So no, this isn't going to the dustbin of history. This is the present reality. So we get the internationalists in the Democrats, to the limits that in and of itself represents, and then the burn it all down MAGA in the republicans. And if they were willing to vote in Trump not once but twice, they will continue to vote in MAGA presidents who have less baggage, and to our chagrin, may actually be smarter in their excecution of their isolationalist policies. So we need to insulate ourselves, both in NATO and Canada, from that eventuality. That means we cannot just assume that things go back to normal. The Americans need to prove to us, and to the world that MAGA is gone, until then, just assume they are a 4 year election cycle away.

That means on trade, we cannot trust or rely on them.

In military alliances, we cannot trust or rely on them.

In territorial integrity, we cannot trust or rely on them.

And in relation to this thread, in terms of military procurement, we cannot trust or rely on them.

And about time too ....