The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Altair]

That's a trash cop out. There is no government press release stating what we're buying so even including the Gripen in there is misinformation and partisan wishful thinking. The only thing that is factually true is we are buying the minimum number of F35s that were previously committed in the initial order. Any other number, or suggest of another aircraft is peddling in r/politics RUMINT.

If youre arguing that XX cannot mean 00 then i dont know what to say.

The government of canada is looking at the Gripen as an option, and hasnt determined or announced if we will get any or not, so it can be 99,it can be 00, as represented by XX.

If i knew the number i would have used it instead of XX.

But i do know, the solution for right now is going to be one, or both of those airframes.

And thats all i was trying to say.

 

[YZT580]

Tariffs and trade wars are certainly putting the screws to us.

And we can be meek and accept it, or we can decide enough is enough.

We watched Sir Keir Starmer try to be meek and accept it, and he's one of the most unpopular leaders in the western world and will be looking for a new job come fall as Trump and America ran roughshod over him.

So that didnt work.

This reminds me of a situation i overheard with my wife and her friend, who was with an abusive guy. The friend kept saying she couldnt leave, because the guy paid for everything. My wife, and im proud of her, said, "if he can feed you he can strave you."

We are in a situation where our reliance on the USA feeds us. It also gives leverage to the USA to try to starve us. We should not accept that. Even if we are not getting the top of the line kit, sovereignty and national interests take precedent.

Thankfully, with Carney at the helm, we seem to be doing a decent job positioning ourselves to be able to feed ourselves going forward.

Don't put all the credit on Carney. With Trudeau not at the helm would describe it better as in all honesty we have no idea what would have happened with the other guy. We could be better off or worse than with Carney. However we are certainly better off without his predecessor.

 

[Altair]

Don't put all the credit on Carney. With Trudeau not at the helm would describe it better as in all honesty we have no idea what would have happened with the other guy. We could be better off or worse than with Carney. However we are certainly better off without his predecessor.

I have no evidence one way or another what PP would have done. I have ideas, certainly, but no way of knowing.

Campaigning isnt governing. Opposition isnt governing.

But I can judge Carney on his body of work. And so far, he's doing a good job. Our percentage of international trade is up. Our trade with the USA is not growing nearly as fast as our trade with the rest of the world. He is looking (i said looking) at procuring kit from nations other than the USA, and trying to get them to give industrial tradeoffs here in Canada for us buying their kit.

He is looking to invest in the CAF like no PM in my lifetime, and to keep that money in Canada or working for Canada.

So he gets credit from me.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Well I would say that you oiled the screws to make it easy to turn.

Hypothetically if Canada had been at 2% in the 70’s to now (yes lets ignore recessions etc as this is just a hypothetical).
88 F-35 already flying, CF-18 donated to Ukraine 3 years ago
P-8 already flying
15 River class in the water
3-5 JSS in the water
12 Patrol Subs
HIMARS and other Army equipment fielded

Canada probably wouldn’t have been an easy target to push, as there wouldn’t have been any really “Gotcha” to do so.

I'd enhance the above, under your scenario, timelines, those '12 Patrol Subs' would be '12 Nuclear Patrol Subs' as proposed under Mulroney.

 

[KevinB]

I'd enhance the above, under your scenario, timelines, those '12 Patrol Subs' would be '12 Nuclear Patrol Subs' as proposed under Mulroney.

That would have been a massive game changer. One can’t just not fund SSN maintenance.
One wonders had that program gone ahead, what the world would look like today from a Canadian history perspective.

 

[Czech_pivo]

That would have been a massive game changer. One can’t just not fund SSN maintenance.
One wonders had that program gone ahead, what the world would look like today from a Canadian history perspective.

100% true statement.

I'd dare to say that we'd be still considered a 'Nation that punches above its weight class,' if that sort of capability had gone through. It would have linked Canada to the UK still today in nuclear capable subs. It would have undoubtably resulted in NO AUKUS occurring, with Australia more than likely hitching its bandwagon into a joint CANUKAUS nuclear submarine programme.

 

[lenaitch]

100% true statement.

I'd dare to say that we'd be still considered a 'Nation that punches above its weight class,' if that sort of capability had gone through. It would have linked Canada to the UK still today in nuclear capable subs. It would have undoubtably resulted in NO AUKUS occurring, with Australia more than likely hitching its bandwagon into a joint CANUKAUS nuclear submarine programme.

Except according to this article, right now they are not too capable.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/07/navy-fleet-out-of-service-maintenance-russia-lord-west/

 

[Czech_pivo]

Except according to this article, right now they are not too capable.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/07/navy-fleet-out-of-service-maintenance-russia-lord-west/

Things might have been a different if they had us as a partner and someone else helping to shoulder the costs/burden with.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Except according to this article, right now they are not too capable.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/07/navy-fleet-out-of-service-maintenance-russia-lord-west/

Mind you Germany with 6 subs and sub export industry was in the same boat a few years ago as well.

 

[KevinB]

Except according to this article, right now they are not too capable.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/07/navy-fleet-out-of-service-maintenance-russia-lord-west/

Yuck, as their SSBN fleet is also in dire straights - albeit due to missile maintenance aspects.

Mind you Germany with 6 subs and sub export industry was in the same boat a few years ago as well.

Not just Germany -- all of NATO except the USA sat back and enjoyed a “peace dividend” and let the US shoulder the vast burden of defending the free world for quite some time.

Part of the Reason that China and Russia have been so aggressive.

 

[YZT580]

Yuck, as their SSBN fleet is also in dire straights - albeit due to missile maintenance aspects.

Not just Germany -- all of NATO except the USA sat back and enjoyed a “peace dividend” and let the US shoulder the vast burden of defending the free world for quite some time.

Part of the Reason that China and Russia have been so aggressive.

and the U.S. loved it. Think of Indo-China and the Viet Cong. The French screamed for help and you came running to their aid. You have maintained bases all over the world, allowing the host nations to sit back and watch with the possible exception of Turkey. There were financial incentives for doing so and it also gave almost global control to Washington. Trump is the first leader who has fought back against the costs. I think he decided that it was time to collect on 50 years worth of leaches draining the resources and it is tied to the rise of China. Reagan more or less bankrupted the Soviet Union and maybe Trump was visualizing the same thing happening to the U.S. He couldn't have chosen a worse time for our own economy and that of many others but perhaps a little pain is necessary. Thoughtfully he identified one of the principal culprits: net zero the pursuit of which has bankrupted GB. Without getting into an argument over it, it would seem that the process of creating an alternative has been very poorly thought out. We went into panic mode instead of approaching the issues carefully; making certain that the next platform was secure before burning the bridge.