Replacing the Subs

[Czech_pivo]

Somebody referenced the Marmen contract above. Marmen is a fairly recent company in Quebec, based in Trois-Rivieres, that has made quite a name for itself in the high precision manufacturing of heavy specialized equipment, such as hydro-electric turbines, steam turbines for Nuclear power plants, Eolian power systems , etc.

TKMS wants them to build sub-assembly sections of the subs, apparently.

Well, not very far, in Sorel, the old Marine Industries facility is fairly easily refurbishable up to modern standards to begin "ship" production again if need be. It could be a win win. European boats produced in Europe with some sub-assemblies made in Canada, and the Canadian boats being built in Canada, with some European made sub- assemblies.

could be a real multiplier of capacity for TKMS.

I referenced it. This could a solid win for us.

 

[HavokFour]

Somebody referenced the Marmen contract above. Marmen is a fairly recent company in Quebec, based in Trois-Rivieres, that has made quite a name for itself in the high precision manufacturing of heavy specialized equipment, such as hydro-electric turbines, steam turbines for Nuclear power plants, Eolian power systems , etc.

TKMS wants them to build sub-assembly sections of the subs, apparently.

Well, not very far, in Sorel, the old Marine Industries facility is fairly easily refurbishable up to modern standards to begin "ship" production again if need be. It could be a win win. European boats produced in Europe with some sub-assemblies made in Canada, and the Canadian boats being built in Canada, with some European made sub- assemblies.

could be a real multiplier of capacity for TKMS.

This would soothe many a head (mine included) worried about their ability to meet any kind of timeline.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Somebody referenced the Marmen contract above. Marmen is a fairly recent company in Quebec, based in Trois-Rivieres, that has made quite a name for itself in the high precision manufacturing of heavy specialized equipment, such as hydro-electric turbines, steam turbines for Nuclear power plants, Eolian power systems , etc.

TKMS wants them to build sub-assembly sections of the subs, apparently.

Well, not very far, in Sorel, the old Marine Industries facility is fairly easily refurbishable up to modern standards to begin "ship" production again if need be. It could be a win win. European boats produced in Europe with some sub-assemblies made in Canada, and the Canadian boats being built in Canada, with some European made sub- assemblies.

could be a real multiplier of capacity for TKMS.

TKMS and Marmen sign strategic Teaming Agreement to support production of 212CD submarine segments in Canada

TKMS and Marmen sign a strategic Teaming Agreement to collaborate on producing selected 212CD submarine segments in CanadaMarmen will apply its high-precision manufacturing expertise to support one of…

www.tkmsgroup.com

 

[Underway]

So the build in Canada thing is perhaps not entirely what it seems. Marmen portion may be what G&M is going off of for their statement. TKMS at CANSEC explicitly pointed out to a number of industry media types that they did not put a "Canada build" part into their bid, but would do so if asked. CANSEC was well after the bid was submitted and from what I hear reviewed by lower levels of government.

That being said there are points of failure here, TKMS floor person at CANSEC is probably not an expert in the bid submission. So take this for what it is. We'll have to wait and see what this looks like.

 

[Nvlgzr]

So the Germany choice, if that is correct, is it the worst choice of the two? I've heard that some worried that Germany couldn't produce sub quick enough for Canada.

Germany has stated that they are willing to give up their first two positions for us.

 

[MacNav63]

Never fails, I always pick the losing candidate..

Ditto

 

[Jarnhamar]

What if the German subs have kill switches?

 

[DBNSG]

Fair all around! Lol. I do recommend Toller it's a great pint! Brewed in Dartmouth too!

Those that like it like it alot.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Fair all around! Lol. I do recommend Toller it's a great pint! Brewed in Dartmouth too!

Can’t get it in Ontario. Hopefully my daughter who’s in Dartmouth can get me a case.

 

[Nvlgzr]

What if the German subs have kill switches?

It’s not a Lockheed.

 

[KevinB]

What if the German subs have kill switches?

Look out for that screen door...

 

[KevinB]

It’s not a Lockheed.

It has a remarkable amount of LocMart stuff in it.

 

[Nvlgzr]

If TKMS wins, I see us getting 6 boats and a future government saying: "Good enough" and the timelines for those 6 will be long enough that people will have forgotten the intial ask and justification. Plus the people involved will have retired/moved on.

A little piece of my heart is still praying for a shiny new KSS sub.....

TKMS has said deliveries by 2032,2033,2035,2036 for first boats.

 

[thecdn]

Those that like it like it alot.

Oh great, now that's stuck in my head. What commercial was that from?

Looks like Burnside Brewery opened in 2015. So I moved away from Dartmouth 31 years too soon.

 

[thecdn]

Can’t get it in Ontario. Hopefully my daughter who’s in Dartmouth can get me a case.

When I went to Gagetown, NB in 83 for reserve inf offr trg from Halifax, we couldn't get Keiths outside of NS. My dad sent me a 24 as a care package and I became very popular with the other Bluenosers.

 

[Nvlgzr]

It has a remarkable amount of LocMart stuff in it.

Didn’t know that. Can you say what stuff?

 

[Rainbow1910]

So the build in Canada thing is perhaps not entirely what it seems. Marmen portion may be what G&M is going off of for their statement. TKMS at CANSEC explicitly pointed out to a number of industry media types that they did not put a "Canada build" part into their bid, but would do so if asked. CANSEC was well after the bid was submitted and from what I hear reviewed by lower levels of government.

That being said there are points of failure here, TKMS floor person at CANSEC is probably not an expert in the bid submission. So take this for what it is. We'll have to wait and see what this looks like.

I very much question the plausibility in doing anything besides rather small scale or minor assembly work, as submarine construction is basically the most complex, expensive and difficult industrial efforts that a nation can embark upon. This is doubly so regarding cutting edge designs like the Type 212CD and KSS-III, which has ridiculous tolerances which can result in heavily degraded capability at best or dead crew at worst. We explicitly ruled this out in the early days of this program, as domestic construction would needlessly draw out an already costly and potentially hazardous program.

There seems to be folks in Government with delusions of nationalistic grandeur who are pushing questionable domestic projects across the envelope, running the gauntlet from defence and even into civilian projects at this point. I hope some adults in the room can wrangle these folks back to reality, because I've seen more sense on alternate history writing forums than what I'm seeing in Government currently.

 

[Underway]

I very much question the plausibility in doing anything besides rather small scale or minor assembly work, as submarine construction is basically the most complex, expensive and difficult industrial efforts that a nation can embark upon. This is doubly so regarding cutting edge designs like the Type 212CD and KSS-III, which has ridiculous tolerances which can result in heavily degraded capability at best or dead crew at worst. We explicitly ruled this out in the early days of this program, as domestic construction would needlessly draw out an already costly and potentially hazardous program.

And yet places like India, Turkey, Netherlands, Australia, Singapore, Spain and Korea all seem to have done it. But Canada is incapable? We can do it. I agree we probably should not, as its a big lift and we can focus efforts in other directions.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

1 more hour to go the official announcement

 

[Rainbow1910]

And yet places like India, Turkey, Netherlands, Australia, Singapore, Spain and Korea all seem to have done it. But Canada is incapable? We can do it. I agree we probably should not, as its a big lift and we can focus efforts in other directions.

Incapable? Surely not, Canada is a first world nation that can realistically do many things. Just because we can do something though, doesn't mean we should do it at the end of the day.

I can also point to nations like India, Spain and Korea who have all had substantial growing pains and issues with said programs, in industrial bases that have much more experience that we do currently. Spain is basically a lesson on how not to build submarines at this point, hence them being booted from our program fairly early.