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Long term, reduce carbon emissions?
2026 Wildfire Season
- Thread starter daftandbarmy
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Canadians lack insight in to how precarious our hold over the periphery of our Country is. As someone who works along the periphery, I know exactly how precarious it is. Now the counter to that is "nobody wants it, so why spend the $$$?".
I think comments from POTUS should awaken everyone to the fact there are those who do in fact want it and they will spend the $$$ to acquire it.
Now, I have advocated in the past for working more closely with the Americans and further integration but that doesn't seem to be of interest to the average Canadian. But what also doesn't seem to be of any interest is footing the bill to pay for the infrastructure to exert our own influence over our own domain.
We have been here before:
The creation of the NWMP and the building of the Canadian Pacific Railway was a direct result of the requirement to exercise sovereignty over our domain. We were under immense pressure a 150 years ago from the Americans, just like we are right now and we have been riding on the coat tails of that legacy infrastructure for 150 years.
Time to dust off the playbook again.
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Double the size of the water bomber fleet, increased provincial funding for Fire Rangers. Stop using summer students to fight forest fires and actually establish a professional Cadre of professional fire brigades that are paid appropriately for the risks assumed?
Oh, revitalize the forestry industry, which is in the doldrums across the Country.
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I completely agree with putting resources into developing our North (which most Canadians view as “anything north of the Trans-Canada Hwy”), but that has got nothing to do with fight forest fires that are 100x200km and create their own weather. That is like us going to the Americans and telling them to get a grip on the hurricanes that hit the Atlantic Provinces.
daftandbarmy
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If you can make money, as with the Fur Trade and (later) the Gold Rushes in the Yukon and BC, the infrastructure will turn up along with some other 'social enablers'.
If you have to borrow money to run your country, and treat the money makers (business) like crap, then you'll have to be satisfied with your bike lanes ... in a few of the bigger cities.
daftandbarmy
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Or, like they used to do for beetle kill trees, cut stumpage rates (taxes) for forest companies so they can more economically build roads into the boreal forest and extract the fibre to make a profit.
Instead of driving them out of the country with the tax rates and making them set up shop (there are dozens of Canadian mills etc down there) in the south east USA.
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So…no.
Look, we could have 1000 water bombers. They are useless when the fire is so hot that the water evaporates before even hitting the fire. If you can even get close enough to make a drop count. Water bombers work on relatively small fires and to protect values. But, as a fire officer told me on a large fire complex in 2018, in most cases you might as well just drop dollar bills from water bombers. You are really waiting until it rains before you can make much headway.
So let’s manage the boreal forest you say. It is 1.2-1.5 billion acres (for comparision Europe is 2.5 billion acres). Lots of it not commercially viable. It is designed to burn every 30-50 years. Suppressing the fires just kicks the can down the road to an even bigger fire.
I mean- sure, let us economically develop the north. But we are not ever going to have a nice manicured european (or even southern US forest) across the boreal.
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Disagree. The reason the fires grow so large is because they are able to feed off a large amount of fuel due to lack of development. Activities like logging, road building, mining, development, etc all act to create barriers against the growth of an out of control fire.
A rail line or a road creates a natural fire break. It doesn't make sense to develop everything or is there an economic case for it but that's why we need to allocate more resources i.e. aviation and professionals to combating this issue.
If you can make money, as with the Fur Trade and (later) the Gold Rushes in the Yukon and BC, the infrastructure will turn up along with some other 'social enablers'.
If you have to borrow money to run your country, and treat the money makers (business) like crap, then you'll have to be satisfied with your bike lanes ... in a few of the bigger cities.
Bingo, Govt interference has crushed the Forestry sector in this Country. There have been dozens of mills that have closed in Northern Ontario in the past decade, the consequence is that forests that used to be harvested are now being left untouched.
Halifax Tar
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Speaking for my little corner of country, forest clean up/managment and water bombers.
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So cut stumpage fees. Have our largest customer complain that that's an unfair subsidy to the industry, and raise tariffs on Canadian lumber exports?
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Since I know where you live, your province’s problem is relatively small. More water bombers and cleaning up the forest immediately around towns would probably help.
Halifax Tar
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Halifax Tar
Army.ca Legend
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Just trying to stay in my lane.
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The Americans will buy the product at a premium... trust me on this. A lot of the lumber we make is specialty product for home building that can't be made elsewhere. 99% of the lumber I ship heads South. An emerging market is also biomass, there is a lot of untapped money to be made there.
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That is actually a big part of the problem: US tariffs.
The US will get Canadian forest products, either as wood fibre or as smoke. Their choice.
daftandbarmy
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Especially if there is a huge environmental lobby intent on 'protecting' the forests. How well did that work for you, Jasper?
Politically motivated pressure groups do alot to influence government policy away from scientifically rational, economically viable forest management practices, viz:
Does it matter who logs Canada’s forests?
Does it matter who logs Canada’s forests?
As a federal election and trade war loom, a look at the state of one of Canada’s key resources: forests.
davidsuzuki.org
Canada’s Boreal Forest: Why It’s So Important
Saving the boreal from clearcutting would not only protect trees and wildlife but also the planet’s climate and the rights of the people who have lived in these forests for millennia.
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Bang on - and this has been the case (and exactly that rationale) no matter who's been in the Whitehouse and at Parliament Hill since The Falklands War. That also explains a lot of this:
After watching the CAN-USA softwood lumber fight, and mills closing, for +40 years....
... in spite of what you're validly seeing, my mileage varies quite a bit across the sector.
daftandbarmy
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It's great leverage, isn't it?
"So, The Donald, give us a 50 year break on the softwood Lumber Deal and we'll make the smoke 'go away'."
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Professional input on the forest management side of things here:
The pulp markets that dominated much of the 1900's are gone. Actual usage is down and you're fighting against south American plantations that have three huge advantages:
1) tree rotation cycles of 7-10 years instead of 70-100.
2) very cheap labour compared to North America/Europe
3) many have their own docks so shipping finished product is a breeze.
On the lumber front producers are doing okay but you also run into a couple of big issues:
On the wildfire front:
Will try to think over solutions and positive direction changes in the next few days depending on fire situation.
The pulp markets that dominated much of the 1900's are gone. Actual usage is down and you're fighting against south American plantations that have three huge advantages:
1) tree rotation cycles of 7-10 years instead of 70-100.
2) very cheap labour compared to North America/Europe
3) many have their own docks so shipping finished product is a breeze.
On the lumber front producers are doing okay but you also run into a couple of big issues:
- generally as you move north into the boreal the tree size reduces making it tougher to get sawlogs suitable for larger lumber. You don't need much of a tree to make a poor quality 2x4 but if you want to make a 2x6 it's something very different.
- building mills further away from markets just increases your cost. You could make the crown stumpage free and building a mill in a place like Moose Factory ONT will still face losses due to transport costs when compared to a mill in the SE states
- Canada, despite the mill closures around the country, still produces way more wood than it consumes.
- Much of the world doesn't build with wood. Concreate is more common
- Top end prime lumber has a market worldwide....but you have lots more of poorer quality lumber. Home Depot lumber is not top end product but that's what we're used to as most have never seen a J-grade or #1 board.
On the wildfire front:
- huge fires are major resource sinks.
- prescribed burns can be effective...but doing large scale ones can be extremely challenging. Ambition is a good thing until you start a prescribe burn and it "over achieves"
- Wildland Urban Interface fires are much more common in part due to population expansion but also areas that haven't burn. Much more needs to be done on building code, zoning and insurance.
- While I can train a rookie firefighter into a useful member in a few weeks....the supervision and higher command roles are much tougher. It's the difference between a bunch of Private recruits and Senior Officers...but there's no shortcuts. Just experience and time to develop.
- Water bombers are sexy for images but are often useless without ground support
- Heavy equipment can be a huge multiplier...but needs to access before it can create fire access. And much of the north doesn't have it.
- Even if you can detect a new start immediately it takes time to have the responding force arrive. And many don't realize how far away/how long it takes to travel 100km or more to a new start. This problem is even greater in the north with fewer communities and bases to work out of
Will try to think over solutions and positive direction changes in the next few days depending on fire situation.
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Lack of innovation is also a huge issue. It's back to the old productivity issue. Canadians aren't very productive..
Trying to convince Canadians to invest in cutting edge technology in traditional industries is like trying to pull teeth. I ship dozens of chip cars weekly..... I watched them let woodchips sit out in the rain, absorb moisture, which greatly increases the weight of the product being transported....
They then have to pay to dry the product at final destination which greatly increases the cost and reduces profit margins... meanwhile Mills in Germany are using mechanical compression to squeeze the water and moisture out of their wastage products and are able to transport 50% more volume per truck load and receive a higher price for their product at the buyer destination because it's higher quality and doesn't need to use nearly as much energy to be dried..
