EV's, Gas/Oil, and The Future- another swerve split from- JT Hints Boosting Canada’s Military Spending

[PrairieFella]

A friend has one and I was really impressed with how fast the interior heated up in -30C Winnipeg winters; less than 30 seconds.

A lot of the more modern ones seem to have resolved the winter depletion problem too. BYD is at the forefront of that - hopefully some other company can take some...pointers on that front lol.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Aussies are reporting rust issues with their Chinese cars, quality control is still all over the place.

 

[ytz]

A lot of the more modern ones seem to have resolved the winter depletion problem too. BYD is at the forefront of that - hopefully some other company can take some...pointers on that front lol.

Early EVs didn't have thermal management systems. New ones do. That improves range and reduce wear and tear on the battery.

A friend has one and I was really impressed with how fast the interior heated up in -30C Winnipeg winters; less than 30 seconds.

The miracle of heat pumps.....

Aussies are reporting rust issues with their Chinese cars, quality control is still all over the place.

Which brands? Chinese manufacturing is always choose your own adventure. You can the quality of an iPhone or generic brand android. Just depends on how much you want to pay. Some brands are probably better than others.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Telsa was the first to do thermal management and I will argue they are the world leader in automotive battery thermal management. Their cooling of earlier motors was less successful, although they have solved that issue.

 

[ytz]

Thermal management systems aren't really about the motors. It's about temp range bounding the battery pack. Battery heats up during charging. They needs to heat up in the cold to reduce internal resistance. They also need to cool down when charging to keep charge rate high. The thermal management system does that.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Thermal management systems aren't really about the motors. It's about temp range bounding the battery pack. Battery heats up during charging. They needs to heat up in the cold to reduce internal resistance. They also need to cool down when charging to keep charge rate high. The thermal management system does that.

Telsa had a major issue with coolant getting into the motor windings, causing major bills for anyone outside of warranty. They did solve that problem on later models and I don't hear issues with it. Beyond battery thermal management is motor thermal management as well.

 

[Ludoc]

So - EVs. Any of guys driven one? Frickin fast was my first impression. If the 500km range ones come down in price I might consider one when my wife and I get a car.

I have a Ford Lightning and am very happy with it. Based on my experience with it, I think EVs are great and most people would be happy to own one.

There are a bunch of things they do better than ICE vehicles. However, there are some things ICE vehicles are better suited for. I think most households with one vehicle and every household that has two vehicles could switch one for an EV and be very happy with the change. Once you get an EV into someone's hands they seem to be sold on them pretty quickly.

Having said that, there are still use cases where an ICE vehicle is 100% better. If you own a camping trailer and want to do a lot of of long haul towing trips, an EV is not right for you. If you live in an apartment/condo and don't have the ability to plug it in at night you would be missing out on the best benefit of having an EV, and should not buy one.

 

[ytz]

I think most households with one vehicle and every household that has two vehicles could switch one for an EV and be very happy with the change.

This is something that honestly surprises me about why there aren't more EVs given how many 2+ car households we have in Canada where one vehicle is just used for commuting.

If all you do is commute, a base Tesla 3 will be cheaper on lifecycle costs than a Civic, given that a base model Tesla 3 is now $40k.

 

[ytz]

If you live in an apartment/condo and don't have the ability to plug it in at night you would be missing out on the best benefit of having an EV, and should not buy one.

One of the things that really intrigued me from travel to Europe recently was charging at grocery stores. Everybody needs to eat. And everybody spends 20-30 mins inside a grocery store. Given a sufficiently high powered charger, you could sufficiently fill up for a week of driving during your grocery trip.

Concurrent activity. Should be something a lot of this forum understands.

 

[RangerRay]

One of the things that really intrigued me from travel to Europe recently was charging at grocery stores. Everybody needs to eat. And everybody spends 20-30 mins inside a grocery store. Given a sufficiently high powered charger, you could sufficiently fill up for a week of driving during your grocery trip.

Concurrent activity. Should be something a lot of this forum understands.

Were they pay stations? I can’t see your average grocery store wanting to foot the hydro bill for charging their customers’s cars.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

One of the things that really intrigued me from travel to Europe recently was charging at grocery stores. Everybody needs to eat. And everybody spends 20-30 mins inside a grocery store. Given a sufficiently high powered charger, you could sufficiently fill up for a week of driving during your grocery trip.

Concurrent activity. Should be something a lot of this forum understands.

Likely as the old European apartment buildings don't have the power infrastructure or the parking to charge at home. In Canada, purchasing trends are going toward hybrid. However be careful, PHEV hybrids batteries fail and are very costly. A basic hybrid gives you flexibility with fuel savings, without the significant risk of expensive battery failure. As for why more people don't buy EV's, in my opinion is generally the interiors are soulless and devoid of anything but a large screen. I know a number of Telsa owners, about half say they love the car for performance and range, but hate the interior.

 

[ytz]

Were they pay stations?

Yes. Don't think I've ever seen free fast chargers anywhere. Between the charging stalls and site prep, those charging stations can cost several hundred thousand to build, especially when they have multiple stalls. Obviously, the costs have to be recovered.

At the end of the day though, if it's cheaper than buying gas, not sure many would care.

Likely as the old European apartment buildings don't have the power infrastructure or the parking to charge at home.

Correct. But grocery store charging is taking off there and that enabled EV growth by giving apartment dwellers a place to charge while actually doing something useful. Not just sitting in a cafe for half an hour charging.

Incidentally, Walmart is now jumping into the game here with their network of 400 kW chargers.

Walmart’s own EV charging network picks up the pace with 100th station

Although off to a slow start in its self-branded EV-charging buildout, the retail giant plans thousands of locations and says they already span 20 states.

autos.yahoo.com

I've always thought that Loblaws building a network like this, with its 2500 stores, would be a game changer. A larger and EV version of Costco gas.

However be careful, PHEV hybrids batteries fail and are very costly. A basic hybrid gives you flexibility with fuel savings, without the significant risk of expensive battery failure.

I haven't seen data on PHEV batteries having unusual failure rates. And batteries from the Prius era lasted longer than most of the cars themselves.

My issue with a hybrid (I had a rare Jetta Hybrid for a decade) is two fold. 1) They often put turbos in there these days which means you have to buy premium gas. 2) Your maintenance requirements go up cause the Hybrid system has to be serviced by the one hybrid tech at the dealership. My average lifetime gas consumption on that car was 6.5L/100km. For a 2013, that wasn't bad. However, I'm not sure I actually netted out a ton of savings. Going full EV or full gas just seems easier.

I get the PHEV for commuters. But if you're av two car family why not just be go EV for the grocery getter and decent gas/diesel for the roadtrip vehicle?

As for why more people don't buy EV's, in my opinion is generally the interiors are soulless and devoid of anything but a large screen. I know a number of Telsa owners, about half say they love the car for performance and range, but hate the interior.

For the majority of people, and especially women, a vehicle is an appliance. Nobody is buying a Honda Fit for its interior styling.

 

[ytz]

By the way, Walmart has started an EV charging price war in the US. They charge less than most competitors. They barely started building 18 months ago. Already have a hundred locations done. Another 116 under construction and 235 going through permitting right now.

Walmart seems to understand what others have failed to. It's not the sale of electricity that makes money. It's them selling you other stuff for the 20-30 mins you now have to be in the store anyway.

 

[dapaterson]

My local Loblaws owned grocery story installed a bunch of chargers recently, I assume for that reason.

Of course, the corporate structure where one subsidiary owns the land and rents it to another can create perverse, conflicting incentives.

 

[lenaitch]

Our local Canadian Tire has a bank of chargers near the lot entrance. All I see is people hanging around their cars. What fun. I don't know if CT derives any spin-off store business from people waiting for a charge.

They often put turbos in there these days which means you have to buy premium gas.

That is manufacturer specific. The missus' Jeep Compass turbo runs on regular fuel.

 

[ytz]

My local Loblaws owned grocery story installed a bunch of chargers recently, I assume for that reason.

Not sure what it's like at your store but the Loblaws near me has a handful of practically useless low power chargers. Those are box ticking exercises or maybe if some employee wants to park for the whole work day. Hopefully, yours are better.

Walmart putting in 400 kW is a game changer. There aren't even a lot of EVs that can handle that. Anything at 150 kW or higher is a gamechanger. Full "tank" in 30 mins or less. Just enough time to finish a grocery haul.

Of course, the corporate structure where one subsidiary owns the land and rents it to another can create perverse, conflicting incentives.

This is probably less of a problem than renting to a completely different entity. Like Canadian Tire renting space to Electrify Canada.

Walmart has an incentive to make sure rates are low and charging speeds are decent because it draws customers to their stores. Like Costco gas.

Our local Canadian Tire has a bank of chargers near the lot entrance. All I see is people hanging around their cars. What fun. I don't know if CT derives any spin-off store business from people waiting for a charge.

I appreciate that CT tried to give Electrify Canada a home. But the problem is that CT is not the place I would want to spend half an hour a week. There's a CT near me with an EC charger. But it has a Starbucks in the lot. People just go there.

That is manufacturer specific. The missus' Jeep Compass turbo runs on regular fuel.

There's exceptions. But in general, this trend away from normally aspirated engines is pushing up octane requirements. It's good to find the exceptions.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Google "phev battery failures"

Chevrons charging station drama is a cautionary tale for chains


Raging fire at B.C. EV charging station caused by remote technician working in U.S., report finds

 

[ytz]

Google "phev battery failures"

You can find anything to justify a position on the internet. What's the actual per capita stats though and if this is a trend, surely causes have been identified?

I personally think hybrids are pointless today. I love the Carlos Ghosn quote who said, "Hybrids are like Mermaids. When you want a fish, you get a woman. And when you want a woman, you get a fish."

 

[Halifax Tar]

There's exceptions. But in general, this trend away from normally aspirated engines is pushing up octane requirements. It's good to find the exceptions.

I laugh in 7.3L, naturally aspirated V8.

Who is exactly 1L/100km more than my previous 5 ooooooh so far. And she's not even broke in yet. And costs me 10$ more a month.

In a wold of advancing technology I encourage everyone to take a step back to simplicity and dependability.

45-70s, V8s and black coffee.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Not sure what it's like at your store but the Loblaws near me has a handful of practically useless low power chargers. Those are box ticking exercises or maybe if some employee wants to park for the whole work day. Hopefully, yours are better.

Walmart putting in 400 kW is a game changer. There aren't even a lot of EVs that can handle that. Anything at 150 kW or higher is a gamechanger. Full "tank" in 30 mins or less. Just enough time to finish a grocery haul.



This is probably less of a problem than renting to a completely different entity. Like Canadian Tire renting space to Electrify Canada.

Walmart has an incentive to make sure rates are low and charging speeds are decent because it draws customers to their stores. Like Costco gas.



I appreciate that CT tried to give Electrify Canada a home. But the problem is that CT is not the place I would want to spend half an hour a week. There's a CT near me with an EC charger. But it has a Starbucks in the lot. People just go there.



There's exceptions. But in general, this trend away from normally aspirated engines is pushing up octane requirements. It's good to find the exceptions.

I assure you that I spent much more than 30 minutes a week in Canadian Tire.

That is either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on which side of the ledger you are on…