Canadian River Class Destroyer Megathread

[Colin Parkinson]

No. The Cape class vessels were fleet maintenance ships, not supply.

Initially they were meant to be able to follow the fleet and be "Afloat Logistic Support Capability" fixing and repairing things as required without having to return to Canada. I see that as much of the logistic side as fuel and ammunition.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No. The Cape class vessels were fleet maintenance ships, not supply.

Which also included large warehouses of materiel to enable that maintenance.

Initially they were meant to be able to follow the fleet and be "Afloat Logistic Support Capability" fixing and repairing things as required without having to return to Canada. I see that as much of the logistic side as fuel and ammunition.

I'd love to see us get a SERVRON, but that's a bit of a pipe dream right now. I expect you're talking about something like a tender that can follow and support the task groups.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Which also included large warehouses of materiel to enable that maintenance.

Well, if they did, I completely missed them. I lived onboard CAPE BRETON for two summers in a row in the late 70's. That's where the officer cadets of the naval reserve lived while under training. And I crawled all over that ship and didn't see any "large warehouse". She had the usual stores you would expect on any ship with that size crew, and a few extra stores for raw material (various metals and woods). What she did have was shops. large, well equipped multiple shops.

You have to remember that the Cape's were serving with a fleet, in the 50's and 60's where everything on the ships was basically mechanical or electrical. From the raw material they carried, they could fabricate just about anything that would need replacement in the fleet.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Which also included large warehouses of materiel to enable that maintenance.



I'd love to see us get a SERVRON, but that's a bit of a pipe dream right now. I expect you're talking about something like a tender that can follow and support the task groups.

Will our JSS hold frozen (or fresh) food stores?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Will our JSS hold frozen (or fresh) food stores?

Im not sure, but I suspect so. The previous PRO class did. It wasnt a huge amount, but I vividly remember storing pallets of milk to be frozen. If we want do that properly we need proper provisions stores ships and dry-cargo ships.

The new PRO class should also hold various class spares for the ships they will support i.e RCD, CDC ect ect.

Well, if they did, I completely missed them. I lived onboard CAPE BRETON for two summers in a row in the late 70's. That's where the officer cadets of the naval reserve lived while under training. And I crawled all over that ship and didn't see any "large warehouse". She had the usual stores you would expect on any ship with that size crew, and a few extra stores for raw material (various metals and woods). What she did have was shops. large, well equipped multiple shops.

You have to remember that the Cape's were serving with a fleet, in the 50's and 60's where everything on the ships was basically mechanical or electrical. From the raw material they carried, they could fabricate just about anything that would need replacement in the fleet.

Where there is maintenance there is stores.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Where there is maintenance there is stores.

Yes. But not "large warehouses" of "materiel". Unless we have a different definition of "materiel". To me, that's always had a connotation of military prefabricated spare parts. The Cape's didn't carry that. They carried raw materials. And the extra stores for them were not that big.

The largest compartment, BTW, was the wonderful old engine room, which occupied the whole center of the ship that rose almost all the way up the superstructure to house the very large three pistons reciprocating steam engine. A sight to behold for amateurs of maritime lore. Already by the 60's nobody used that form of propulsion.

 

[Stoker]

Will our JSS hold frozen (or fresh) food stores?

Yes, not sure the capacity internal to the ship but they can also carry up to 60 20ft ISO's, plenty of room for dry, frozen and fresh in reefers.

 

[Halifax Tar]

A note on fresh, we didnt normally carry spare fresh (i.e. fruits and veggies). They have a life of only 14-21 days max. Some like berries much much quicker, less than a week.

The exception being hard vegetables like spuds and turnips.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

And onions. Gotta have onions for the French Onion soup.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yes. But not "large warehouses" of "materiel". Unless we have a different definition of "materiel". To me, that's always had a connotation of military prefabricated spare parts. The Cape's didn't carry that. They carried raw materials. And the extra stores for them were not that big.

The largest compartment, BTW, was the wonderful old engine room, which occupied the whole center of the ship that rose almost all the way up the superstructure to house the very large three pistons reciprocating steam engine. A sight to behold for amateurs of maritime lore. Already by the 60's nobody used that form of propulsion.

Myself and several other people tried to save that engine to be a centre piece of the Vancouver Maritime Museum, sadly with no success. I was onboard the Jeremiah O'Brian when they were running up her triple expansion and used to help out on the Steam tug Master which had a smaller triple expansion.

I suspect the Cape Breton had a fair bit of room in her lower holds to store parts and material to make stuff.

 

[Underway]

Will our JSS hold frozen (or fresh) food stores?

Yes. The freezers are huge, the fridges are massive. You load the food into the spaces using pallet jacks and forklifts (to give you an idea of the size). The food is stored in metal cages specifically designed to fit onto rails in the floor and stack on top of each other. You then secure each stack in place with bars/straps.

The food/ammo (aside from missiles and torps) is brought on board already packed into these cages through a side-shell door on a specific crane designed to lift them.

As @Stoker mentioned there is also space for ISO containers and hook ups for electrical to have refrigerated ISO's should that be needed.

There are some stability concerns with the triple threat of a full ISO container load, ammo load and fuel load. However that still needs to be worked out as we get the ship and figure out loading configurations, fueling/supply rates etc.... Likely you won't be running all three of those things at the same time either way. I can see a number of operations which would use a full suite of two of those, or combos of partial loads, but not any that would need all three. But the flexibility it provides is great. Not going to be carrying full loads of Harpoons/ESSM/Torps and main gun ammo very often.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yes. The freezers are huge, the fridges are massive. You load the food into the spaces using pallet jacks and forklifts (to give you an idea of the size). The food is stored in metal cages specifically designed to fit onto rails in the floor and stack on top of each other. You then secure each stack in place with bars/straps.

The food/ammo (aside from missiles and torps) is brought on board already packed into these cages through a side-shell door on a specific crane designed to lift them.

As @Stoker mentioned there is also space for ISO containers and hook ups for electrical to have refrigerated ISO's should that be needed.

There are some stability concerns with the triple threat of a full ISO container load, ammo load and fuel load. However that still needs to be worked out as we get the ship and figure out loading configurations, fueling/supply rates etc.... Likely you won't be running all three of those things at the same time either way. I can see a number of operations which would use a full suite of two of those, or combos of partial loads, but not any that would need all three. But the flexibility it provides is great. Not going to be carrying full loads of Harpoons/ESSM/Torps and main gun ammo very often.

Outstanding! Very glad to hear this!

We also used forklifts and pallet jacks on the old PRO class.

Incidentally, is it the Deck dept managing the forklifts still ? Or has that been given over to Log ?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Incidentally, is it the Deck dept managing the forklifts still ? Or has that been given over to Log ?

Isn't the Log department busy enough with checking the loads to come onboard and telling the bosns where to put them?

Anyway, the concerns Underway alludes to provide hours and hours of fun for the Cargo Officer and the Liquid Cargo Officer. At least, on the new ones, I assume they will have computer assistance instead of tables, graphs and calculation forms.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Yes. The freezers are huge, the fridges are massive. You load the food into the spaces using pallet jacks and forklifts (to give you an idea of the size). The food is stored in metal cages specifically designed to fit onto rails in the floor and stack on top of each other. You then secure each stack in place with bars/straps.

The food/ammo (aside from missiles and torps) is brought on board already packed into these cages through a side-shell door on a specific crane designed to lift them.

As @Stoker mentioned there is also space for ISO containers and hook ups for electrical to have refrigerated ISO's should that be needed.

There are some stability concerns with the triple threat of a full ISO container load, ammo load and fuel load. However that still needs to be worked out as we get the ship and figure out loading configurations, fueling/supply rates etc.... Likely you won't be running all three of those things at the same time either way. I can see a number of operations which would use a full suite of two of those, or combos of partial loads, but not any that would need all three. But the flexibility it provides is great. Not going to be carrying full loads of Harpoons/ESSM/Torps and main gun ammo very often.

Is there an entire process in place already regarding the purchasing of fresh/frozen food in overseas ports?
Do we have 'standing agreements' in place already for some ports (say in the UK/France/Italy), with previously used vendors?
For more 'one off locations', say Vietnam, do we lean on using vendors that say Australia or Germany or the US has used in the past or do we ask the Vietnamese navy/gov't for recommendations?
Does the Canadian Food and Safety ministry get involved to ensure that the JSS's holds/freezers don't get contaminated with foreign pests/insects harmful to Canada?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Is there an entire process in place already regarding the purchasing of fresh/frozen food in overseas ports?

Yes.

Do we have 'standing agreements' in place already for some ports (say in the UK/France/Italy), with previously used vendors?

Yes. We use a group call SCA.

And we have Deployed Logistics Support Standing Offers (DLSSOs).

We also have ships agents/chandlers in foreign ports; and a Forward Logistics Site (FLS) team that fly's from port to port.

The ships birthing, tugs, line handling, stores and fuel, ect, needs are sent ahead on a message called an ANNEXA. The contracted company, usually SCA, sub contracts to a local agent/handler who arranges everything and is there when the ship comes along side.

For more 'one off locations', say Vietnam, do we lean on using vendors that say Australia or Germany or the US has used in the past or do we ask the Vietnamese navy/gov't for recommendations?

Yes, we actually have a data base of port recces of all the ports our ships have ever been too. This provides all logistics, sustainment, and birthing details and lessons learned.

Does the Canadian Food and Safety ministry get involved to ensure that the JSS's holds/freezers don't get contaminated with foreign pests/insects harmful to Canada?

No. While we do follow Canadian regulations; onboarding rations is controlled and compliance maintained by the Snr Cook, Snr Med pers and Victualler.

As well all food prep and storage spaces are inspected annually by PMed pers.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Does the Canadian Food and Safety ministry get involved to ensure that the JSS's holds/freezers don't get contaminated with foreign pests/insects harmful to Canada?

To add to this, because I finished reading too fast lol:

Once a ship returns home, it must dispose of any foreign rations through the local HAZMAT organization within 30 days.

When we came home on PRE back in the early 2000s, we found weevils in our dry stores.

Anything that wasn't canned was disposed of. For canned goods, the paper labels were removed, the cans were washed with a bleach solution and rinsed, then relabeled with a marker and returned to storage.

 

[Lumber]

We also have ships agents/chandlers in foreign ports; and a Forward Logistics Site (FLS) team that fly's from port to port.

FLS: the single greatest job in the entire CAF.

 

[Halifax Tar]

FLS: the single greatest job in the entire CAF.

You would be surprised how hard it is to get people to do it.

RCAF Food Services Officer sounds pretty sweet too!

 

[dapaterson]

Victualling navies can be quite lucrative... just ask Fat Leonard.

Fat Leonard scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Halifax Tar]

I was wondering that would rear its ugly head. lol