Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[KevinB]

People are the LimFac. See my above point.

Notably all the staff weanies and procurement folks. ADMs in Carling are fighting over engineers and procurement folks. Some are working multiple projects. Which is a recipe for burnout long run. But because of the way government works, it's not just DND, every other government departments involved in defence procurement has to staff up too.

As much as I hate to use DoD down here as an example, there are a number of courses available (and some required) for positions to learn the procurement cycle from soup to nuts.

Of course non of that matter if you ignore key aspects of requirements writing (which tends to occur down here).
Cardinal Sin being so not write a requirement for a capability that another service already fields. — but it’s hard to Lead Change if you simply adopt something Bob over there has…

 

[ytz]

As much as I hate to use DoD down here as an example, there are a number of courses available (and some required) for positions to learn the procurement cycle from soup to nuts.

We have those courses too. And most serials are full these days.

We're flat out told that you will accept less these days. You may want a Sergeant with technical experience as the SME on your project staff. Guess what? You will be getting a new MCpl who has finished his type course. Get over it.

Not that this can't work. And honestly, it's pretty inspiring to see so many people stepping up. But there's a sustainability problem. People and organizations can only sprint for so long. Eventually, they have to slow down. And we'll need more people to carry the load then. Or we need to change the burden with substantial regulatory change. And to the government's credit, they are trying to do both. But it's just difficult to pull off quickly. For these reasons, I am somewhat pessimistic.

That said if you aim for 3.5 and hit 3, would it be the worst thing? Probably not.

 

[Kirkhill]

We have those courses too. And most serials are full these days.

We're flat out told that you will accept less these days. You may want a Sergeant with technical experience as the SME on your project staff. Guess what? You will be getting a new MCpl who has finished his type course. Get over it.

Not that this can't work. And honestly, it's pretty inspiring to see so many people stepping up. But there's a sustainability problem. People and organizations can only sprint for so long. Eventually, they have to slow down. And we'll need more people to carry the load then. Or we need to change the burden with substantial regulatory change. And to the government's credit, they are trying to do both. But it's just difficult to pull off quickly. For these reasons, I am somewhat pessimistic.

That said if you aim for 3.5 and hit 3, would it be the worst thing? Probably not.

If you are moving forwards, now is not the time to be losing faith.

Get some rest.

 

[McG]

So we need to free up people to change but we can't free up people until we change?

Not "free up" - DND needs to hire.
Other departments who are responsible for pushing CAF projects will also need to hire.
More people to push more projects.

 

[childs56]

Not "free up" - DND needs to hire.
Other departments who are responsible for pushing CAF projects will also need to hire.
More people to push more projects.

How many people do we have pushing these projects?
How many are in redundant or underutilized jobs/ postions that can be redirected to be more efficient?

 

[ytz]

How many people do we have pushing these projects?
How many are in redundant or underutilized jobs/ postions that can be redirected to be more efficient?

There's always someone who thinks they can run things better.

"If only I were in charge...."

Step up.

 

[dapaterson]

How many people do we have pushing these projects?
How many are in redundant or underutilized jobs/ postions that can be redirected to be more efficient?

Working on an acquisition you'll have a variety of skillsets, including:

Engineers. Working with vendors on the technical aspects, which may or may not include integration challenges - either rolling tech we want into the platform, or integrating the platform into our existing tech framework.

Supply. New equipment means new parts and assemblies that will have to be tracked, stored and reported. Cross referenced against extant holdings. Imagery and descriptions ported from the vendor system into departmental systems.

Infra. Big new things frequently need big new facilities for storage and maintenance. But buildings don't magically appear overnight. There are other initiatives at most bases and wings. And the boring things like water, sewer and electricity are all getting old, and either need midlife refit , replacement, or growth - Petawawa's electric grid is failing because of its age and lack of capacity to support modern, increased demands.

Training. Operators, maintainers, employers need to have their training updated to reflect the new equipment. Not just what the glossy pamphlet promised, but what it actually delivers, and how those effects are integrated with the rest of the system of systems that is the CAF.

Security. Physical security. Personnel security. IM/IT security. The CAF has ignored this for years, and there's a huge deficit that projects are addressing.

Contracting. Lots of contracts supporting all the lines of effort. And increased desire to get smaller vendors a slice of the pie. Meaning more contracts to be coordinated and managed.


And with all those folks running around and doing their things, project managers to keep things on track, to identify interdependencies, to prioritize effort, to keep things moving.

 

[Lumber]

Working on an acquisition you'll have a variety of skillsets, including:

Engineers. Working with vendors on the technical aspects, which may or may not include integration challenges - either rolling tech we want into the platform, or integrating the platform into our existing tech framework.

Supply. New equipment means new parts and assemblies that will have to be tracked, stored and reported. Cross referenced against extant holdings. Imagery and descriptions ported from the vendor system into departmental systems.

Infra. Big new things frequently need big new facilities for storage and maintenance. But buildings don't magically appear overnight. There are other initiatives at most bases and wings. And the boring things like water, sewer and electricity are all getting old, and either need midlife refit , replacement, or growth - Petawawa's electric grid is failing because of its age and lack of capacity to support modern, increased demands.

Training. Operators, maintainers, employers need to have their training updated to reflect the new equipment. Not just what the glossy pamphlet promised, but what it actually delivers, and how those effects are integrated with the rest of the system of systems that is the CAF.

Security. Physical security. Personnel security. IM/IT security. The CAF has ignored this for years, and there's a huge deficit that projects are addressing.

Contracting. Lots of contracts supporting all the lines of effort. And increased desire to get smaller vendors a slice of the pie. Meaning more contracts to be coordinated and managed.


And with all those folks running around and doing their things, project managers to keep things on track, to identify interdependencies, to prioritize effort, to keep things moving.

Don't forget to mention that for the uniformed people involved in these processes, they are also, at the exact same time, completing annual readiness training, writing feedback notes, dealing with personnel administrative issues, writing PARs, participating (at minimum) in PT tests if not daily/weekly fitness training, conducting second language training, being seconded to intermittent taskings, being "involved with the mess" (which is pushed unreasonably hard in Ottawa). The nature of military responsibilities means you need at least 1.5 people to get done what a single civilian can often do.

 

[dapaterson]

Don't forget to mention that for the uniformed people involved in these processes, they are also, at the exact same time, completing annual readiness training, writing feedback notes, dealing with personnel administrative issues, writing PARs, participating (at minimum) in PT tests if not daily/weekly fitness training, conducting second language training, being seconded to intermittent taskings, bring "involved with the mess" (which is pushed unreasonably handled in Ottawa). The nature of military responsibilities means you need at least 1.5 people to get done what a single civilian can often do.

A prior version of A PS 219, on structure planning, included that assumption - that in an office context, military personnel had fewer available hours per year than civilians. Alas, that volume was repealed because we don't need such written direction.

 

[PrairieFella]

A prior version of A PS 219, on structure planning, included that assumption - that in an office context, military personnel had fewer available hours per year than civilians. Alas, that volume was repealed because we don't need such written direction.

Makes sense. Civvies dont have mandatory PT hours, requirements like yearly IBTS, etc.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Don't forget to mention that for the uniformed people involved in these processes, they are also, at the exact same time, completing annual readiness training, writing feedback notes, dealing with personnel administrative issues, writing PARs, participating (at minimum) in PT tests if not daily/weekly fitness training, conducting second language training, being seconded to intermittent taskings, being "involved with the mess" (which is pushed unreasonably hard in Ottawa). The nature of military responsibilities means you need at least 1.5 people to get done what a single civilian can often do.

You forgot 'duties' and 'extra duties'

I bumped into a guy who was my Adjt many years ago, a real cnut, and he asked me what I liked best about civvie street.

I replied, with a smile, that twats like him couldn't give me 5 weekend duties for forgetting to attach my Sam Browne sword frog while doing a weekend duty Officer stint,

 

[childs56]

Working on an acquisition you'll have a variety of skillsets, including:

Engineers. Working with vendors on the technical aspects, which may or may not include integration challenges - either rolling tech we want into the platform, or integrating the platform into our existing tech framework.

Supply. New equipment means new parts and assemblies that will have to be tracked, stored and reported. Cross referenced against extant holdings. Imagery and descriptions ported from the vendor system into departmental systems.

Infra. Big new things frequently need big new facilities for storage and maintenance. But buildings don't magically appear overnight. There are other initiatives at most bases and wings. And the boring things like water, sewer and electricity are all getting old, and either need midlife refit , replacement, or growth - Petawawa's electric grid is failing because of its age and lack of capacity to support modern, increased demands.

Training. Operators, maintainers, employers need to have their training updated to reflect the new equipment. Not just what the glossy pamphlet promised, but what it actually delivers, and how those effects are integrated with the rest of the system of systems that is the CAF.

Security. Physical security. Personnel security. IM/IT security. The CAF has ignored this for years, and there's a huge deficit that projects are addressing.

Contracting. Lots of contracts supporting all the lines of effort. And increased desire to get smaller vendors a slice of the pie. Meaning more contracts to be coordinated and managed.


And with all those folks running around and doing their things, project managers to keep things on track, to identify interdependencies, to prioritize effort, to keep things moving.

All that does not answer these two questions.
"How many people do we have pushing these projects?
How many are in redundant or underutilized jobs/ positions that can be redirected to be more efficient?"

Businesses around Canada and the World deal with these issues and others daily. What has the DND/ CAF done to reorganize to be more efficient and more importantly effective on the modern business world. Because that is what they are dealing with. Like all the other federal organizations they have grown in size but efficiency has not gone up.

It is funny watching organizations who do things the same way for so long turn the page and adapt actually different strategies turn them selves around and become more effective.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

All that does not answer these two questions.
"How many people do we have pushing these projects?
How many are in redundant or underutilized jobs/ positions that can be redirected to be more efficient?"

Businesses around Canada and the World deal with these issues and others daily. What has the DND/ CAF done to reorganize to be more efficient and more importantly effective on the modern business world. Because that is what they are dealing with. Like all the other federal organizations they have grown in size but efficiency has not gone up.

It is funny watching organizations who do things the same way for so long turn the page and adapt actually different strategies turn them selves around and become more effective.

If you now get an MBA at Athabaska University with a C+ grade with no actual experience in the sphere you are talking about, you are ready to be a top level consultant in many of the Bigs.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If you now get an MBA at Athabaska University with a C+ grade with no actual experience in the sphere you are talking about, you are ready to be a top level consultant in many of the Bigs.

Even if you hire the top students it can take a couple of years to 'train the schooling' out of them.

Universities don't do business grads, and their new employers, alot of favours IMHO ...

 

[dapaterson]

All that does not answer these two questions.
"How many people do we have pushing these projects?
How many are in redundant or underutilized jobs/ positions that can be redirected to be more efficient?"

Businesses around Canada and the World deal with these issues and others daily. What has the DND/ CAF done to reorganize to be more efficient and more importantly effective on the modern business world. Because that is what they are dealing with. Like all the other federal organizations they have grown in size but efficiency has not gone up.

It is funny watching organizations who do things the same way for so long turn the page and adapt actually different strategies turn them selves around and become more effective.

The CAF puts an infantry officer in charge of signals. That's the level of insight the general officers have.

Reduction, reform and re-education of the GOFOs is a sine qua non of progress. Fewer, better selected, better educated, more intelligent GOFOs would be a force multiplier.

Here's a question for you: How many projects are there in DND/CAF right now? For fun, limit the count to those in OA, Def and Imp.

How much of the CAF is in low skill positions that can easily be trained up on short notice, so can be reduced to expand the hard to train, long time to develop occupations, and expand the sustainment enterprise so we will have the materiel & equipment necessary?

The 90s saw the protection of a Potempkin village style fighting force, while the enablers that kept the system operating were starved and shrunk and told to do more with less.

 

[childs56]

If you now get an MBA at Athabaska University with a C+ grade with no actual experience in the sphere you are talking about, you are ready to be a top level consultant in many of the Bigs.

But grades mean nothing, performance means everything. You fake it until you make it.
Top grades does not mean you can do the job.
I have yet to see anyone walk out of school and become a top level anything anywhere. Usually they have to pay their dues like anyone else. Many of them question why they even went to school for the position they are actually doing for what they were promised.
Unless they have their friends and family promotion board. Then throw it all out the window.

The CAF puts an infantry officer in charge of signals. That's the level of insight the general officers have.

Funny some here think that is ok as long as they understand how to lead.

Reduction, reform and re-education of the GOFOs is a sine qua non of progress. Fewer, better selected, better educated, more intelligent GOFOs would be a force multiplier.

With good relatable experience also. I would often recommend anyone making decisions of any organization should have solid experience of their industry, also have experience elsewhere to understand how different organizations can influence change, growth and stability within their own organization.

Here's a question for you: How many projects are there in DND/CAF right now? For fun, limit the count to those in OA, Def and Imp.

For 2026
144 Infrastructure over 25million dollars.
8000 Listed on MERX

• 147 Open Solicitations
• 8,467 Closed Solicitations
• 2,875 Bid Results
• 1 Awarded Solicitation
• 44 Open Advanced Procurement Notices

For 2025
Open source
1,210 DND tenders in 2025
98,543 Federal notices
Over 100,000 contracts a year across the board looked after for DND.

How much of the CAF is in low skill positions that can easily be trained up on short notice, so can be reduced to expand the hard to train, long time to develop occupations, and expand the sustainment enterprise so we will have the materiel & equipment necessary?

That was the argument for growing Headquarters across the board. So you could have the people required to grow the force in times of needs. The problem became when those critical people made their jobs so self important that they could not be replaced. Effectively eliminating their initial role of being ale to be highly skilled to grow the force.

The 90s saw the protection of a Potempkin village style fighting force, while the enablers that kept the system operating were starved and shrunk and told to do more with less.

Agree.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

I have yet to see anyone walk out of school and become a top level anything anywhere. Usually they have to pay their dues like anyone else. Many of them question why they even went to school for the position they are actually doing for what they were promised.
Unless they have their friends and family promotion board. Then throw it all out the window.

I did not say on graduation. That Athabaskan MBA can launch your career, where you can climb to the top with little to no actual workforce experience - or any experience outside that initial job (that will get you the leadership of the CPC tho... )

My experience with "top consultants" had led me to the conclusion that they are top because they are best at billing. Those with actual experience are more likely to be in Advisory roles....

FInally, consultants suffer from an LPC problem over the last 10 years - all about plans and never about execution. Consultants in the most notorious of the big firms (ie all of them) don't execute because that kills their own business. Politicians don't execute because it is harder to do than to say....

 

[childs56]

I did not say on graduation. That Athabaskan MBA can launch your career, where you can climb to the top with little to no actual workforce experience - or any experience outside that initial job (that will get you the leadership of the CPC tho... )

kind of of how it is worded But I understand what you are saying.
"If you now get an MBA at Athabaska University with a C+ grade with no actual experience in the sphere you are talking about, you are ready to be a top level consultant in many of the Bigs".

My experience with "top consultants" had led me to the conclusion that they are top because they are best at billing. Those with actual experience are more likely to be in Advisory roles....

One usually sees that reflected in the make up of Senior staff. Often leaving the President and or CFO with practical experience in the business and all the others in the chain as the ones to bring in the money.

FInally, consultants suffer from an LPC problem over the last 10 years - all about plans and never about execution. Consultants in the most notorious of the big firms (ie all of them) don't execute because that kills their own business. Politicians don't execute because it is harder to do than to say....

I call them the good idea fairy.