Military budget squeeze limits paid Remembrance Day participation in Ontario

[ModlrMike]

As a former CO, I can tell you it is extremely easy to go well over your initial allocation.

I can echo that. You submit an estimate based on your training programme, and they give you less than you plan for. Then you get more folks showing up every week than your average. As long as I kept my O&M generally under control, HQ didn't get too knot faced over my SWE.

 

[Staff Weenie]

Apparently, one of the pay systems is actually DOS-based. I was laughing when I heard that. Do they have to insert the old floppy disks in sequence to get it running?

To childs56's point - cutting the number of BMQ courses/positions, or limiting the number of troops who can join per unit ultimately kills units on the front end. The next, and more devastating cut is to PLQ positions. I always use the analogy of reactors for Reserve units - once you slow the reaction or dip below critical mass, the reactor fizzles and dies. Every time we fail to produce MCpl, we can only run less BMQ the following year, meaning less Cpl a few years later for PLQ, meaning less BMQ - it's a downward spiral that accelerates. After several years, it crosses over into less Sgt and WO to train the troops.

 

[Staff Weenie]

I can echo that. You submit an estimate based on your training programme, and they give you less than you plan for. Then you get more folks showing up every week than your average. As long as I kept my O&M generally under control, HQ didn't get too knot faced over my SWE.

Any for the love of all that's holy - never, ever, use Hospitality funding!!!! Even typing this, there is a Comptroller somewhere sensing a great disturbance in the Force.

 

[childs56]

I doubt anyone understands RPSR any more, and it really needs replacing. Ive seen the british system and its a much more stream lined system where a platoon warrant logs in to a system in a parade night. Checks off who is present and it automatically registers them to be paid. They even do quarter days so if you just gotta show uo for one meeting. You get paid just for that


I still have people waiting on ottawa for class C pay from op nanook, people who have gone over a year and not paid for a brigade ex. Its an absolute disaster

The system has never worked properly. It could be six months before one seen a pay check in the 90s if at all. When they did pay you, one had to look at it to make sure they paid properly and took taxs off at the proper rate.
To not have a pay system in place that works is criminal in todays age. There is no excuse, because they don't care.
Even the worst shadiest, crapiest company I worked for had a reliable pay system that paid on time, if an error was made it was corrected as soon as pay roll new about the issue.

To wait anymore then two weeks to fix a pay issue someone should be fired for that.

Again all the excuses in the world people come up with and it really comes down to someone needs to make a proper decision to fix it.
That somebody needs to be the CDS, and the MND. Again they just don't care. Hopefully those Reserve Brigade Commanders start showing some leadership and brings these and other issues forward to get them fixed.

 

[childs56]

Most of the literature on implementation of new pay systems is filled with disasters of varying degrees. Add to that the DND penchant for running things into the ground (ships, vehicles and aircraft) and we find ourselves with CCPS, first released in 1977 (!) and RPSR, first released in 1994 as IRPPS as the payroll systems.

Last I heard, the as-is payroll system (Reg and Res) is being fully mapped, interdependencies documented (Guardian, PENMod, various CRA systems, DRMIS, FAA, NDA...) for the deliberate conversion to a COTS product.

But in the interim, the in-service 49 and 32 year old systems require ongoing maintenance to keep them operating and keep them compliant; upgrades and changes for new benefits create additional demands on a shrinking base of technical personnel.

Then hire outside technical people to either keep the old system working or implement an actual new working system.
All I hear in government at all levels is excuses as to why this hasn't been done, that hasn't been done. Everyone points a finger at each other and nothing gets done. Lots of promises and lots of hopes and dreams. But the Leadership and management team needs to get their butts in gear and fix the issues. But they wont because it will keep chugging along like an old steam locomotive that was converted to oil using available parts.

 

[mariomike]

Any for the love of all that's holy - never, ever, use Hospitality funding!!!!

"What's happens in the Hospitality Suite , - stays - in the Hospitality Suite!!!! "

Just kidding.

 

[Staff Weenie]

"What's happens in the Hospitality Suite , - stays - in the Hospitality Suite! "

I had a $1M budget to run an OPMED conference years ago - $1,800 was planned for hospitality for visiting dignitaries. It ended up needing CDS approval. I spent more staff effort on the hospitality request than any other part of the conference. Turns out I did something wrong on it, and they needed a 'Confirming Order' done, and the J8 staff had to run with that. We probably spent far more than $1,800 in salary to justify having a dinner and mementos for visitors who actually gave some highly useful lectures on trauma medicine that may have helped save lives in Afghanistan.

 

[dapaterson]

Apparently, one of the pay systems is actually DOS-based. I was laughing when I heard that. Do they have to insert the old floppy disks in sequence to get it running?

No, CCPS predates DOS. It runs in a terminal emulator, with five letter shortcuts to various functions.

RPSR had to have its front end redone a few years ago after Flash was deprecated.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The system has never worked properly. It could be six months before one seen a pay check in the 90s if at all. When they did pay you, one had to look at it to make sure they paid properly and took taxs off at the proper rate.
To not have a pay system in place that works is criminal in todays age. There is no excuse, because they don't care.
Even the worst shadiest, crapiest company I worked for had a reliable pay system that paid on time, if an error was made it was corrected as soon as pay roll new about the issue.

To wait anymore then two weeks to fix a pay issue someone should be fired for that.

Again all the excuses in the world people come up with and it really comes down to someone needs to make a proper decision to fix it.
That somebody needs to be the CDS, and the MND. Again they just don't care. Hopefully those Reserve Brigade Commanders start showing some leadership and brings these and other issues forward to get them fixed.

Clearly you have never worked in the Public Service and DFO in particular.

 

[YZT580]

Apparently, one of the pay systems is actually DOS-based. I was laughing when I heard that. Do they have to insert the old floppy disks in sequence to get it running?
or toggling it in on the front panel

There is a lot that is right about DOS when I think back on it. The primary being its size. It didn't allow inefficiencies in programming as there just wasn't enough memory space to handle it. Figure the first space shuttles were all based upon a 64k system. All of Canadian ATC ran on 64k up until the 1990s'. Newer computers are definitely faster and handle far more information but they are not as efficient and their very size allows inefficiencies. But is it the programming that is suspect or the man to machine protocol. If one authorizes an expense i.e. weekend training then every thing associated with that weekend that includes the correct identification code should be paid out according to schedule without any further questioning. It sounds like the system contains a bunch of mandatory stoplights where identified categories must be further authorized manually. These shouldn't exist as the use of the ID code should suffice. Checks can run in the background to ensure compliance and red flag individual errors but they shouldn't stop the pay.

 

[PrairieFella]

Most of the literature on implementation of new pay systems is filled with disasters of varying degrees. Add to that the DND penchant for running things into the ground (ships, vehicles and aircraft) and we find ourselves with CCPS, first released in 1977 (!) and RPSR, first released in 1994 as IRPPS as the payroll systems.

Last I heard, the as-is payroll system (Reg and Res) is being fully mapped, interdependencies documented (Guardian, PENMod, various CRA systems, DRMIS, FAA, NDA...) for the deliberate conversion to a COTS product.

But in the interim, the in-service 49 and 32 year old systems require ongoing maintenance to keep them operating and keep them compliant; upgrades and changes for new benefits create additional demands on a shrinking base of technical personnel.

I wonder if PayForce can handle the sheer amount of fringe benefits and allowances we have? PS is currently in the process of switching and Ive heard good things, especially compared to Phoenix.

 

[childs56]

Clearly you have never worked in the Public Service and DFO in particular.

I have worked the public service federl/provincial municipal most of my working adult life.

 

[OldSolduer]

Any for the love of all that's holy - never, ever, use Hospitality funding!!!! Even typing this, there is a Comptroller somewhere sensing a great disturbance in the Force.

Hospitality funding and approval is a joke.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have worked the public service federl/provincial municipal most of my working adult life.

DFO was terrible, taking 6 months to pay OT and travel and that was before Phoenix came along. I can't speak for Municipal or Provincial, so I should amend my previous statement to just Federal.