Author Topic: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?  (Read 56214 times)

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Offline cupper

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2016, 20:21:20 »
The way things are going, I can see where this is headed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w

But wouldn't the 16 ton weight create a stability problem if you mount it on the upper deck?
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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2016, 06:55:13 »
That's never stopped them before.   ;)

Offline Colin P

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2016, 10:24:38 »
Yep, I have some weather ships, Class 500 Cutters and torpedo recovery vessels to sell you, complete with some minor stability issues :)

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2016, 12:15:56 »
Yep, I have some weather ships, Class 500 Cutters and torpedo recovery vessels to sell you, complete with some minor stability issues :)

Outriggers.   >:D
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2016, 13:09:46 »
To fix the "build by committee syndrome"  the weatherships had fuel tanks filled with concrete, the 500 class had flume-tank, active rudders, bilge keels fitted and finally a top weight reduction program Not sure what happened with the torpedo recovery vessels.

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2016, 11:33:03 »
To fix the "build by committee syndrome"  the weatherships had fuel tanks filled with concrete, the 500 class had flume-tank, active rudders, bilge keels fitted and finally a top weight reduction program Not sure what happened with the torpedo recovery vessels.

So everything but outriggers then?

And in the 500 case "top weight reduction" was the final COA, not the initial one?  I guess that would have impacted somebody's cabin boy.
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Offline NavyShooter

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2016, 16:09:00 »
Interestingly, when they refurbished those 40mm's back in the 90s, I passed through FMFCS weapons shop and paused to look at the data plates on several of the receivers that were going in for re-finishing from Green to Gray....

I recall the dates of manufacture being as early as 1942, and as late as 1944, but none of the (5 or 6) that I looked at that day were past 1944.

Those guns are all *OLD* and while that doesn't mean the Bofors isn't a GOOD gun, it does make them as old as the Lee Enfields that the Rangers are finally getting replaced.

Ironically, they design of the .50 HMG's that may end up in the RWS date back to 1918 or so (if they're using the .50 M2 style Brownings.)

NS
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Offline Underway

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2016, 19:23:29 »
Interestingly, when they refurbished those 40mm's back in the 90s, I passed through FMFCS weapons shop and paused to look at the data plates on several of the receivers that were going in for re-finishing from Green to Gray....

I recall the dates of manufacture being as early as 1942, and as late as 1944, but none of the (5 or 6) that I looked at that day were past 1944.

Those guns are all *OLD* and while that doesn't mean the Bofors isn't a GOOD gun, it does make them as old as the Lee Enfields that the Rangers are finally getting replaced.

Ironically, they design of the .50 HMG's that may end up in the RWS date back to 1918 or so (if they're using the .50 M2 style Brownings.)

NS

All the 50 cals are new build relatively.  I was lucky enough to be escort for a veteran from Kapyong for a day sail on HMCS Toronto.  We got him an excellent view of the 50 cal shoot from inside the bridge as he told me he was a 50 cal gunner.  After the shoot the bosn's did an amazing job showing him the tear down and clean.  He was extremely impressed with the way a barrel change could be done with basically a leaver/latch system.  He looked at me and said "In my day we had to unscrew the barrel and screw in a new cool one.  You can imagine how difficult that would be and I burned myself more than a few times.  This woulda been really handy and so quick with the damn (insert racially derogatory name for Asian's here) bearing down on us!" 

I suppose the Browning 9mm will now hold the record for the longest serving weapon system in the CAF (not including ceremonial weapons).


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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2016, 21:46:31 »
We've had Lee Enfields in service since the Ross's removal in 1916, so that'd be 99 years.

The NEWEST of our Browning HP's was manufactured in 1945 (70 years) that said, I don't think there are any WWI era No.1 Mark 3 Enfields still in service.  The oldest Enfields I've seen have been 1941's, (rare) with a few 1942's. 

The Oldest Canadian Browning HP was made in 1944:

"By December of 1943 the Inglis company had produced a few test pistols and on January 14, 1944 the first preproduction Inglis pistols were going through test trials. On January 31, 1944 the first production of the Chinese Hi-Power pistols which became known as the No.1 was completed."  http://www.ai4fr.com/main/page_militaria__collectibles_canada_inglis.html

I will note that the current generation of M2 Browning .50 Cals are all the "QCB" as described above, none of the older style that require the barrel to be screwed in or out to adjust headspace (and timing) are still in service.

Watching a Weapons Tech muck around with locking blocks to find one that will correctly lock is interesting though.

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Offline jmt18325

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2016, 00:10:42 »
So, did this ever go anywhere, or is it dead?

Offline jmt18325

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2016, 00:15:09 »
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1040249

I found this, but it says nothing about the Kingston class.  There aren't enough in the announcement for the Kingston class (4 per ship for the Halifax and the Queenston).  Is it a separate project yet to come, or is it stuff we have on hand?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 00:35:18 by jmt18325 »

Offline gwp

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2016, 18:55:25 »
Don't be too hard on yourself JJ. You may note from my first post on the subject that I too mentioned Bonnie as a source of bofors 40 mm. I can tell you that the lore around the Navy has always been that we were fighting with Bonnie's old guns, not maggies'. So there is a definite long standing urban legend around those guns in any event.
Ken McPherson's - "Ships of Canada's Naval Forces" says:
Bonaventure  16,000 tons, Dimensions  704' x 80' x 25' , Speed 24, Armanent 8-3" (4xII) 8-40 mm. 

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #62 on: May 06, 2017, 14:47:46 »
First look at the new to the RCN Nanuk RWS mounted on the Kingston Class.

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Offline medicineman

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #63 on: May 06, 2017, 15:40:00 »
First look at the new to the RCN Nanuk RWS mounted on the Kingston Class.



Dude in back/right looks like he and the Army CWO are buddies with all the arm decoration thingies going on...

This gun does look somewhat cooler than a Boffin though.

MM
MM

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #64 on: May 06, 2017, 15:50:21 »
How different is it to the one they trialled on SUMMERSIDE years ago?  Without researching it, it looks like a Bushmaster with RWS?
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #65 on: May 06, 2017, 16:20:26 »
How different is it to the one they trialled on SUMMERSIDE years ago?  Without researching it, it looks like a Bushmaster with RWS?

Are you talking about on SUMMERSIDE which was a .50 cal? It looks similar and i'll let you know next week as i'm sailing for trials on the weapon, I was also in SUMMERSIDE in 2005 when we trialed the OTO MELARA system, both were .50's.
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Offline TwoTonShackle

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #66 on: May 06, 2017, 17:25:06 »
Do you know where they put the control panels for these (bridge/ops)? Also are they planning to be controlled by Deck or OPS departments?

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #67 on: May 06, 2017, 17:42:12 »
That is a mean looking gun system. ...  are they retaining the crew served .50's on the wings or can the RCN just go with this weapon on the MCDV.
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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #68 on: May 06, 2017, 18:11:32 »
Do you know where they put the control panels for these (bridge/ops)? Also are they planning to be controlled by Deck or OPS departments?

The control station is on the bridge to the left of the helmsman console. Deck will be operators, however I believe others will be trained as well.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #69 on: May 06, 2017, 18:12:29 »
That is a mean looking gun system. ...  are they retaining the crew served .50's on the wings or can the RCN just go with this weapon on the MCDV.

Port and Stbd gun positions will be retained.
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Offline MCG

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2017, 22:42:46 »
Is it the same Nanuk RWS that the Army mounted on a few LAV when the MMEV project died?

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #71 on: May 07, 2017, 07:00:57 »
Is it the same Nanuk RWS that the Army mounted on a few LAV when the MMEV project died?

More or less, I believe the grenade launcher capability was removed and the rest of the mount changed for Naval use and electronics upgraded.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 07:31:23 by Chief Stoker »
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #72 on: May 07, 2017, 09:16:58 »
Dude in back/right looks like he and the Army CWO are buddies with all the arm decoration thingies going on...

This gun does look somewhat cooler than a Boffin though.

MM

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #73 on: May 07, 2017, 09:45:06 »
But he still look like a Christmas tree (sorry! Holiday tree  ;D).

You know as well as I do, FSTO, that sailors like things simple and don't like to repeat themselves uselessly. Why should their uniform reflect the opposite?

They need to be recognized individually: Fine. That means name tape, trade badge and rank slip ons.

Then they are proud of their "service" and their country: Again, fine. The rank slip ons say CANADA and a single RCN Ensign on one shoulder reflects both the Naval aspect of their service and their country with the Canadian flag in the corner. That is all that is needed, no other Canadian flags or repeats everywhere else.

Finally, they want to identify with their current unit, so a single small unit crest on the breast pocket will do.

Anything else is overkill.

BTW, Chief, no one mentioned it here but that attached E/O system is a damn useful extra sensor even when no requirement to use the gun exists. Do you know if they have planned to have a protective tarp for the gun that will let them use the sensor even when on?

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Re: Kingston Class 40MM replacement?
« Reply #74 on: May 07, 2017, 10:05:27 »
Capt (now Comdre) Craig Skjerpen, former Commanding Officer Sea Training.

Gotcha - forgot about the Sea Training apparel...

MM
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.