Author Topic: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers  (Read 48987 times)

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Offline Remius

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #300 on: August 20, 2018, 06:53:59 »
Pretty standard behavior when someone asks uncomfortable questions-insinuate they're a racist, even if they never mention race.

To be fair, when you watch the whole interaction in french, she doesnt exactly come off as reasonable as the article seems to indicate.
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #301 on: August 20, 2018, 07:20:31 »
To be fair, when you watch the whole interaction in french, she doesnt exactly come off as reasonable as the article seems to indicate.

I don't speak French, can you shed some light on what she is saying that may not come off as reasonable ?
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #302 on: August 20, 2018, 07:38:03 »
To be fair, when you watch the whole interaction in french, she doesnt exactly come off as reasonable as the article seems to indicate.

At which point does she show discrimination or prejudice against people of other race, or suggests that a particular race is superior to another?
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #303 on: August 20, 2018, 08:24:13 »
Pretty standard behavior when someone asks uncomfortable questions-insinuate they're a racist, even if they never mention race.

But she does.  She was questioning (or railing at) the Prime Minister about his lack of tolerance of "Quebecois de souche."  She was basically saying "why do you give our money to illegal immigrants and have such disdain for white Quebecois."  Sounds like she was making it an issue of ethnicity to me.

The PM responded with his remark that he's a proud Quebecois, and that he didn't feel her intolerance was acceptable.  Considering how uncivil the lady was being, I'm not going to come down on the PM for the way he handled it.

 
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #304 on: August 20, 2018, 09:07:19 »
In that case my translator didn't pick up 'white' quebecois.

I still wouldn't consider that racist comments by her though.

"You're a racist" is still a goto insult by the Liberals.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 09:11:35 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #305 on: August 20, 2018, 09:27:31 »
To be fair, when you watch the whole interaction in french, she doesnt exactly come off as reasonable as the article seems to indicate.

Not so sure about that. 

As a "tête carrée originaire de Toronto" having lived in Quebec twice, I didn't see her as unreasonable on the whole.  Yes, "Quebecois(es) de Souche" translates close to 'founding settlers', but she is very clear that her issue is with "les immigrants illigeaux," not all immigrants - which to me, would have been a different issue."  She always qualifies the illegality of those coming into Quebec illegally.  It's not like she said "les maudits immigrants" or complained about the diminishing rights of "la pur laine" or anything like that.  This in contrast to how Quebecois(es) of places such a Hérouxville, particularly through official policies (ref: Critics: Quebec town's conduct code 'xenophobic'), voice their negative opinions of immigrants writ large. 

Frankly, I though she was controlled and conducted herself reasonably, in trying to voice her concern of a Federal policy that she saw as impacting the province.  I also thought it was BS that some surrounding her were insinuating that she was threatening or issuing threats - seemed like someone trying to set up a situation where she was (at least for a moment) forcibly detained by RCMP officers who eventually (not before physically holding her) identified themselves as undercover RCMP security officers.  Perhaps some of the LEOs here could describe her conduct in view of whether she posed a threat to the PM, and if that's close to SOP of how UC LEOs would handle such situations.

I do give Trudeau some credit for his initial 'fairly-leveled' response on the whole, even though I think he was being somewhat dramatic with his view of unacceptability of her statement, although he is certainly free to judge her words and comment on them as he sees fit.  It struck me more as his using her question as a catalyst for launching into an election-style soliloquy.

:2c:

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Offline Remius

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #306 on: August 20, 2018, 10:26:51 »
Not so sure about that. 

As a "tête carrée originaire de Toronto" having lived in Quebec twice, I didn't see her as unreasonable on the whole.  Yes, "Quebecois(es) de Souche" translates close to 'founding settlers', but she is very clear that her issue is with "les immigrants illigeaux," not all immigrants - which to me, would have been a different issue."  She always qualifies the illegality of those coming into Quebec illegally.  It's not like she said "les maudits immigrants" or complained about the diminishing rights of "la pur laine" or anything like that.  This in contrast to how Quebecois(es) of places such a Hérouxville, particularly through official policies (ref: Critics: Quebec town's conduct code 'xenophobic'), voice their negative opinions of immigrants writ large. 

Frankly, I though she was controlled and conducted herself reasonably, in trying to voice her concern of a Federal policy that she saw as impacting the province.  I also thought it was BS that some surrounding her were insinuating that she was threatening or issuing threats - seemed like someone trying to set up a situation where she was (at least for a moment) forcibly detained by RCMP officers who eventually (not before physically holding her) identified themselves as undercover RCMP security officers.  Perhaps some of the LEOs here could describe her conduct in view of whether she posed a threat to the PM, and if that's close to SOP of how UC LEOs would handle such situations.

I do give Trudeau some credit for his initial 'fairly-leveled' response on the whole, even though I think he was being somewhat dramatic with his view of unacceptability of her statement, although he is certainly free to judge her words and comment on them as he sees fit.  It struck me more as his using her question as a catalyst for launching into an election-style soliloquy.

:2c:

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G2G

I'm pretty she stated "VOS immigrants" meaning YOUR immigrants.  Specifically when Trudeau would pay back the money for his immigrants.  Her tone was confrontational and she was heckling before.  CTV has a video of the incident and Trudeau had just  dismissed someone for a supposed inappropriate comment (one that I could not make out) on Aboriginals that seemed to come from the same group.  I'm not saying what she said was racist per se but the OP's article and point is that she was trying to ask about the economy and immigration policy.  She was trying to shout him down, certainly not discuss.  So no she wasn't being reasonable. 
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Offline Remius

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #307 on: August 20, 2018, 10:38:13 »
In that case my translator didn't pick up 'white' quebecois.

I still wouldn't consider that racist comments by her though.

"You're a racist" is still a goto insult by the Liberals.

He didn't actually call her a racist though.  If we are going to parse words it works both ways.
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #308 on: August 20, 2018, 10:49:58 »
Not so sure about that. 

As a "tête carrée originaire de Toronto" having lived in Quebec twice, I didn't see her as unreasonable on the whole.  Yes, "Quebecois(es) de Souche" translates close to 'founding settlers', but she is very clear that her issue is with "les immigrants illigeaux," not all immigrants - which to me, would have been a different issue."

I don't know.  If someone started shouted at you asking why you "don't respect the rights of the Loyalist Descendants of Ontario" how could you take it any other way than an accusation of bias against WASPs, essentially making it an issue of ethnic preference?  :dunno:
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #309 on: August 20, 2018, 11:40:31 »
I don't know.  If someone started shouted at you asking why you "don't respect the rights of the Loyalist Descendants of Ontario" how could you take it any other way than an accusation of bias against WASPs, essentially making it an issue of ethnic preference?  :dunno:

I still didn't see it as racist; more a questions of how far should the pendulum swing.  Everybody has their own take on things.  Personally, I have a hard time seeing her as trying to shout down the PM wen one has a microphone and speakers ad the other doesn't.  Perhaps shouting to be heard over the crowd cheering at the PM's pseudo-scripted responses? :dunno:

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #310 on: August 20, 2018, 11:58:28 »
He didn't actually call her a racist though.  If we are going to parse words it works both ways.
Nope he didn't call her a racist, I didn't mean to suggest he did. Just insinuated she was being racist.

Thats like me saying your racism has no place on this forum, but I'm not actually calling you a racist.

Illegal immigrants aren't a race.
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #311 on: August 20, 2018, 12:40:23 »
I really don't care what was said. The incident happened, it's getting spun mostly anti Trudeau. Perhaps he's getting stressed. His stance during these whistle stops has been getting more extreme each time. Then he disappears for two weeks, (stress leave?) It doesn't seem to have worked.

His message and intolerance is secondary for me. This is going to cost him thousands of votes in Quebec. That's all that matters. It's what happens, around the world, when the arrogance of government dismisses its subjects legitimate concerns.

I think he's lost Ontario already, if Quebec leaves him, the feds will follow their provincial Ontario counterparts into oblivion. 
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Offline QV

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #312 on: August 20, 2018, 12:48:29 »

I think he's lost Ontario already, if Quebec leaves him, the feds will follow their provincial Ontario counterparts into oblivion.

Here's hoping.  But only for a short time so they can purge the fools from the party and rebuild.  A healthy democracy needs a few good choices. 

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #313 on: August 20, 2018, 12:57:52 »
Here's hoping.  But only for a short time so they can purge the fools from the party and rebuild.  A healthy democracy needs a few good choices.

So long as the new party is not just a revised one with all the Laurentien Elites still at the helm. They've run and ****ed up Canada enough. Time for the natural governing party of Canadian politics to hit the road.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 16:09:39 by recceguy »
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Offline Remius

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #314 on: August 20, 2018, 22:17:24 »
I don't know.  If someone started shouted at you asking why you "don't respect the rights of the Loyalist Descendants of Ontario" how could you take it any other way than an accusation of bias against WASPs, essentially making it an issue of ethnic preference?  :dunno:

More than that.  I suspect that a security risk assessment identified that Diane Blain (she has been i. The press before) would be there or that her group would try to disrupt the event.  My guess is that Trudeau pounced on the opportunity.

Mr. Ivison in this NP article presents the trap the CPC is heading into if they aren’t careful.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-justin-trudeau-blows-dog-whistle-on-conservative-xenophobia
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #315 on: August 21, 2018, 07:46:57 »
Read the article:
Quote
"Scheer will likely say there is no place for identity politics in his party and that his underlying vision is of a party of the centre-right that appeals to disaffected Liberal voters."

God I hope so, but I'm still not convinced I want to support a party run by Andrew Scheer.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #316 on: August 21, 2018, 08:03:40 »
So long as the new party is not just a revised one with all the Laurentien Elites still at the helm. They've run and ****ed up Canada enough. Time for the Moustache Pete's of Canadian politics to hit the road.

Just curious here, Recceguy. I am not getting the "Moustache Pete" reference. Could you elaborate, please?

Offline Lumber

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #317 on: August 21, 2018, 08:11:51 »
Just curious here, Recceguy. I am not getting the "Moustache Pete" reference. Could you elaborate, please?

He's comparing members of the LPC to the Sicilian Mafia.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #318 on: August 21, 2018, 08:32:27 »
Read the article:
God I hope so, but I'm still not convinced I want to support a party run by Andrew Scheer.

Do you prefer a party run by Justin Trudeau?
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #319 on: August 21, 2018, 08:38:29 »
Do you prefer a party run by Justin Trudeau?

There's a party being run by Justin Trudeau?
"Aboard his ship, there is nothing outside a captain's control." - Captain Sir Edward Pellew

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #320 on: August 21, 2018, 08:49:11 »
There's a party being run by Justin Trudeau?

Yeaaaa buddy.
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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #321 on: August 21, 2018, 09:18:50 »
Words I never thought I'd say:  I found myself agreeing with an opinion article by CBC's Neil Macdonald.   :orly:
'Interesting times' indeed.

Quote
Maxime Bernier is challenging orthodoxy. He deserves a civil reply: Neil Macdonald

...Bernier 's contention – that identity politics promotes an endless splintering of the polity into ever-narrower shards of cohorts, all of whom believe their ethnicity or religious beliefs or sexuality merit special consideration – is worth discussing. Dismissing Bernier as a nativist, or white nationalist, or simply racist is just more of the reflexive, ad hominem groupthink that's currently so fashionable.

...A lot of Canadians, no doubt, have concerns about the issue that woman raised, whatever her motivation. A reasonable case can be made that Canada 's immigration policies are welcoming and generous, far more so than America's, and should not be ignored. Rather than engage with her, though, Trudeau condescendingly dismissed her as a racist.

It is the Liberal way. If you don't agree with us, we'll smile and explain our policies more slowly, and if after that you still disagree, well, you're a climate change denier, or a racist, or an ideologue not worth the effort of engagement.

The complete article is available HERE


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Offline Furniture

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #322 on: August 21, 2018, 09:44:26 »
I had just finished reading that article this morning before logging on here, I was also shocked to find myself agreeing with the author as well.


Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #323 on: August 21, 2018, 14:43:17 »
Concerned about illegal border crosses?
You're a racist.
Concerned about the cost?
You're un-Canadian.
Don't like the carbon tax?
You're a denier.

 ::)
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #324 on: August 21, 2018, 16:46:11 »
Just curious here, Recceguy. I am not getting the "Moustache Pete" reference. Could you elaborate, please?

I meant the old guard. The Lauretien Elites. The Trudeaus, Raes, Chretians, Mulroneys and Martins. Along with the influence of the Desmarais and Power Corp.

Explanation: When the new American born Mafioso, the 'Young Turks' (Luciano, Genovese, Morello and Capone, etc) wanted to rebuild, try new things and move away from the influence of the old party guys, the old guard, the 'Mustache Petes.' The old guys that immigrated and brought the crime syndicate to the US, didn't like it and tried to stop the youngsters. The Moustache Petes were removed and the Mafia prospered under the Young Turks.

In my context, I simply means the Old Guard, the Laurentien Elites, the Moustache Petes. Move them out and reform the party without their influence. That is all that was meant.

It was a term I grew up hearing when adults were talking about changes at work, in social clubs, committees and, yes, government at election time. "Time to move out the Mustache Pete's and let the Young Turks take over" Common vernacular in everyday speech. Perhaps those days are too far removed for many to remember, if they were even born then.

But at least you asked for an explanation. Whoever complained about it's use, didn't, and I'm sorry they were offended unnecessarily.
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