Author Topic: Boatswain (BOSN)  (Read 140777 times)

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Offline Bass ackwards

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2008, 12:55:56 »
I got curious and looked up the Bosun's trade badge -which is a ship's wheel with a maple leaf above. The Canadian Coast Guard issues a similar badge to their deck department.
According to older references I have here, that badge was issued to quarter-masters, who in my (admittedly limited) understanding, were the people who actually steered the ship and also assisted the navigator. Mainly bridge personnel, in other words.
I didn't see anything in the Bosun's job description (CF recruiting site) that suggested they have anything to do with the bridge, nor did I see any listing for a quarter-master's trade.

What I'm wondering, is who took over that job or, in short -who's driving?

Offline Marlin Spike

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #51 on: August 15, 2008, 14:05:37 »
The Bosn has several duties on-board ship on the Bridge during their Watch on Deck duties at sea. They specifically conduct , Helm, Throttles, Lookout and Bosnmate on the bridge. At Sea a Bosn can expect to spend as much as 12 hrs a day on the bridge.
During the course of their trades training a Bosn receives training in a wide range of subjects from navigation to demolitions (reg force only).

Offline Bass ackwards

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2008, 17:54:10 »
OK, thanks for that, Marlin Spike.  I would assume then that the quartermaster's trade was simply absorbed by the Bosuns.
 
As long as I'm showing my ignorance, your earlier post referred to the Bosun being the "buffer between the officers and the crew".
Do the ships not have a Coxswain anymore? (bear in mind, the bulk of my naval knowledge comes from reading Douglas Reeman novels and watching The Cruel Sea on a regular basis)
Also, Dimsum mentioned a chief quartermaster. What does he/she do now? Are there still quartermasters in some form?

Hope I'm not being a pest: yours is a world I've never been part of, but always curious about.

Offline Marlin Spike

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2008, 19:32:54 »
The Quartermaster trade is a recognized trade in many Navies of the world, but in the Canadian Navy, the QM is obsorbed in the Bosn trade. The QM at sea is the senior member of the watch on deck, and alongside, He/She is the name of the senior person on watch (duty) at the Brow (gangway).

While in a minor warship the Buffer holds the position of the Chief QM, the position is a secondary duty of  one of the Petty Officer's in the Deck Dept on a major warship.

One last quick point.... the short version of Boatswain in Canada is Bosn or Bos'n, the spelling Bosun is American and unfortunately since the start of computers and spell check everyone has defaulted to that.

Thanks for the questions, I've been a Bosn for 25 years and am extremely proud of my trade. :salute:

Offline Bass ackwards

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2008, 19:48:27 »
Again, thank you for the insight, Marlin Spike.

I shall amend my spelling of BOSN.

Your pride is well justified -you guys do us all proud.

 :cdn:

 


Offline WrenchBender

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2008, 20:19:14 »
Big, Ugly, Fat, Fcuker, Easily Replaced.  Well, not really. ;)

I sailed with him, too

WrenchBender
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2008, 02:41:36 »
While in a minor warship the Buffer holds the position of the Chief QM, the position is a secondary duty of  one of the Petty Officer's in the Deck Dept on a major warship.

Not exactly.  The Buffer (Chief Bosn Mate) and the Chief QM are 2 different people in an MCDV.  The CBM is a PO2 billet, the CQM is an MS billet (if more than 1 MS, which isn't likely, then it's the senior MS). 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline N. McKay

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2008, 16:13:02 »
As long as I'm showing my ignorance, your earlier post referred to the Bosun being the "buffer between the officers and the crew".
Do the ships not have a Coxswain anymore?

They do (in Canada, anyway), but historically I think the Bosn did much of what today's Coxn does.

Quote
(bear in mind, the bulk of my naval knowledge comes from reading Douglas Reeman novels and watching The Cruel Sea on a regular basis)

Please forgive the minor side-track here, but if you should see if you can get your hands on a copy of the original novel The Cruel Sea.  It's miles ahead of Reeman and his one story told thirty times with only the names changed.  I'd also suggest a movie called "In Which we Serve", of similar era to "The Cruel Sea" and a fun couple of hours' viewing.

Offline Bass ackwards

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2008, 20:18:56 »
Thanks, Neill.

I'll definitely check both of those out.

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2008, 20:25:16 »
Not exactly.  The Buffer (Chief Bosn Mate) and the Chief QM are 2 different people in an MCDV.  The CBM is a PO2 billet, the CQM is an MS billet (if more than 1 MS, which isn't likely, then it's the senior MS). 

You do realize you are disagreeing with a CPO2 Bosun who probably has forgotten more about seamanship then we will ever learn right?
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Offline N. McKay

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2008, 22:15:46 »
You do realize you are disagreeing with a CPO2 Bosun who probably has forgotten more about seamanship then we will ever learn right?

It's conceivable that a reserve MARS lieutenant might know something about the crew of an MCDV that a reg force CPO2 Bosn wouldn't, isn't it?

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2008, 22:19:21 »
It's conceivable that a reserve MARS lieutenant might know something about the crew of an MCDV that a reg force CPO2 Bosn wouldn't, isn't it?

I wasn't going to mention this but...I will now. 

In the Army, I was taught attention to detail was important.

There are no Lt's in the Navy IIRC.  There are ASLts, SLt's and Lt(N).

I know..picking fly crap outta pepper but...Dimsum has it in his profile.  If I am to believe he knows his crap about naval matters, I would hope he knows what the correct rank in that Branch is.

Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline airmich

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #62 on: August 17, 2008, 10:27:07 »
I wasn't going to mention this but...I will now. 

In the Army, I was taught attention to detail was important.

There are no Lt's in the Navy IIRC.  There are ASLts, SLt's and Lt(N).

I know..picking fly crap outta pepper but...Dimsum has it in his profile.  If I am to believe he knows his crap about naval matters, I would hope he knows what the correct rank in that Branch is.



Hey Eye, just putting some attention to detail to your attention to detail.  I've sailed with Dimsum so I know his current situation, but looking also at his profile, he shows his MARS experience as only going until 2007.  His current MOC is shown as 00182 (AirNav) which could explain why his current rank is shown as "Lt".

As for the discussion on CBM vs. CQM on the MCDVs, I also recall it as the "baby buffer" being the CQM.
So I'll raise a glass, not the first nor last, Come join me in this toast...Because the old black rum's got a hold on me ~ Great Big Sea

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #63 on: August 17, 2008, 14:24:42 »
It's conceivable that a reserve MARS lieutenant might know something about the crew of an MCDV that a reg force CPO2 Bosn wouldn't, isn't it?

given the choice I would go with the CPO2...generally speaking they have proven to be more knowledgeable and competent in the past.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #64 on: August 17, 2008, 17:28:26 »
Hey Eye, just putting some attention to detail to your attention to detail.  I've sailed with Dimsum so I know his current situation, but looking also at his profile, he shows his MARS experience as only going until 2007.  His current MOC is shown as 00182 (AirNav) which could explain why his current rank is shown as "Lt".


Whoops!  My bad.

If you know him, perhaps you can point out to him that his profile is alittle confusing as it currently is filled out?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 17:32:26 by Eye In The Sky »
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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2008, 19:32:06 »


If you know him, perhaps you can point out to him that his profile is alittle confusing as it currently is filled out?

What is it that confuses you ?

Its says hes a 0182 (thats ANAV) and that he was MARS from 2000-2007. Seems clear.

No ?

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2008, 20:17:59 »
Whoops!  My bad.

If you know him, perhaps you can point out to him that his profile is alittle confusing as it currently is filled out?

Naval Reserve MARS until 2007 and now an ANAV seems clear to me as well.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline Marlin Spike

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2008, 10:35:36 »
Well thanks for the vote of confidants regarding my professional knowledge. I do however want to point out that I'm definitely not an expert when it comes to the Bosn's on the MCDV's and who does what there. I can comment on the training of both Reg and Reserve Boatswains. There are lots of differences between the two and both have their pros and cons.

Offline sonardork

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2008, 12:07:33 »
A little quote to clear things up:

SSOs, Chp 10, Para 5

"NOTE: In KINGSTON Class vessels the Chief Quartermaster will be a MS/LS QL2(R)/QL2 selected by the CBM and responsible to the CBM for the above duties."

To be sure, in a perfect world with ships laden with personnel, the above holds true. These days, a large amount of duties are being carried out by the SHOD/CHOD.
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Offline Marlin Spike

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2008, 11:38:17 »
The Boatswain's Call  :cdn:
 
In former days it was worn in English ships as a badge of rank, because it was always used for passing orders. For years it was even worn as a badge of office os the Lord High Admiral of England and his successors up to 1562. Thereafter it was used in the English fleet for passing all orders and since 1671 it became generally known as the "boatswain's call".

Nowadays the boatswain's call and chain are the badge of office of the Chief Boatswain's Mate, the Quartermaster and Boatswain's Mates. The expression "To Pipe" means, to sound on the boatswain's call and the spoken order to qualify it. Some "Pipes" are even orders and do not require any verbal qualification.

The Boatswain's Call


The boatswain's call is held in the hand between the index finger and thumb, the latter being on or near the shackle. The side of the buoy rests against the palm of the hand. The fingers close over the gun and buoy hole in such a position as to be able to throttle the exit of air from the buoy to the desired amount. Care must be taken that the fingers do not touch the edge of the hole in the buoy, or over the hole in the end of the gun, otherwise all sound will be completely choked.




Offline Dimsum

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #70 on: August 19, 2008, 11:57:03 »
I can comment on the training of both Reg and Reserve Boatswains. There are lots of differences between the two and both have their pros and cons.

Just curious, besides the course names (ie Reserve QL1 v. Reg QL3), what are some differences btwn the Reg/Res F BOSN training, and some of the pros/cons? 
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Reply:  "If."

Offline kratz

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #71 on: August 19, 2008, 12:18:53 »
Adding to Marlin Spike's post here is a copy of the Boatswain's Pipe chart that I have:

http://forums.navy.ca/forums/index.php?action=gallery&g2_itemId=39165
Quote from: Pipe *General Call*
"Tanning Stations on the flight deck"


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Offline Marlin Spike

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2008, 13:13:52 »
Dimsum The following are subjects that are not instructed to Naval reserves.
 CoXswain Small Boats/Coxswain Rescue (RHIB as the Boat);
 Participate in a RAS;
 Participate in Seamanship Evolution;
 Conduct Above Water Demoiltions;and
 Carry Out Maintenance Administration.

Offline worldtraveller321

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2008, 16:52:13 »
Just a way to restate a post I had made on this form.

Regarding the position in Navy for a Botswain.

Would there be a big demand for this position? In regarding lack of people to take this position?

Is this a good position to find further advancement later on in one's career.

What type of demographic of people take on this position?

How physically demanding is this position?

Would this position be good to do for 25 to 30 years in the Navy?

Whats the longest duration someone may have been in this position?

What are the most popular Navy positions in the Non-Commissioned area of the Navy?

What is the present condition of the Navy ships? are all ships sea worthy at this time? or any under long term maintenance?

Thank you

Offline Spandrel

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Re: Boatswain (BOSN)
« Reply #74 on: December 15, 2008, 17:39:21 »
...Regarding the position in Navy for a Botswain.

Would there be a big demand for this position? In regarding lack of people to take this position?
Is this a good position to find further advancement later on in one's career.
What type of demographic of people take on this position?
How physically demanding is this position?
Would this position be good to do for 25 to 30 years in the Navy?
Whats the longest duration someone may have been in this position?
What are the most popular Navy positions in the Non-Commissioned area of the Navy?
What is the present condition of the Navy ships? are all ships sea worthy at this time? or any under long term maintenance?

Answers
1.  A recruiting centre can tell you, or you could ask a question here.
2.  A recruiting centre can tell you, but without knowing what you mean by "further advancement" it's hard to say.
3.  This may help.  More information here on CF demographics can be found here.
4.  Good question - I've heard that underway, esp during a RAS, the job can be pretty demanding, but I'm not navy so it's 2nd hand evidence.
5.  That's one for you to answer, but a recruiting centre may be able to help you out.
6.  Another question for a CFRC.
7.  Sounds like you are fishing for research paper answers.  Not sure what you are looking for.  A CFRC may help.
8.  Read the newspapers, visit www.navy.forces.gc.ca or DND press releases about ships.  If it's not there, then it's OPSEC.

Best of luck in your fact-finding.