Author Topic: North Korea (Superthread)  (Read 529036 times)

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Offline Remius

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1750 on: May 01, 2018, 14:02:21 »
I don't think people should lump Iran with NK.  These aren't cookie cutter scenarios. Each is unique and has their own issues to deal with.  so it should be no surprise that Trump is taking a different approach.

As for trusting NK, I don't.  At all.  But today's situation with NK seems better than yesterday's so there is that.

Trump's policy and strategy with NK is one I happen to agree with and have agreed with from the onset.  It's likely one of the only things I agree with him on (ok maybe there are a few more but they are few) but he does deserve a good chunk of credit.
Optio

Offline Loachman

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1751 on: May 01, 2018, 15:16:48 »
I am very cautiously optimistic regarding North Korea.

I was posted back from Germany in the summer of 1989. While some cracks had begun to appear in the Soviet Union and its grip on its vassal states, I don't think that any of us there believed that any real change would occur, especially through non-violent means, in our lifetimes. I was too busy organizing my move back to pay much attention.

Just a few months later - November - I was watching, via my television, "Mauerspechte" ("Wall Woodpeckers" - students and others) sitting atop die Mauer and smacking it with sledgehammers, and not being shot or arrested or opposed in any manner.

In December, on a trip back to Lahr, I drove a rented Audi to Berlin (up to 240 km/hr on the former West German autobahn and still being passed at times, and a bare crawl on the former East German side due to road condition and reconstruction) and saw the recent changes, and things that had yet to change, for myself.

It is attractive, and (perhaps too) easy to imagine the same thing happening in Korea - one people, divided by two differing political ideologies for too long, reuniting.

Iran is a much different situation:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/04/iran-poses-serious-threat-to-middle-east-peace-stability/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NR%20Daily%20Monday%20through%20Friday%202018-04-30&utm_term=NR5PM%20Actives

Why Push Back on Iran?

By Kenneth M. Pollack

April 30, 2018 6:30 AM

For starters, the Islamic Republic poses a serious, intransigent threat to the stability and future direction of the Middle East.

Editor’s Note: The following piece originally appeared at AEIdeas, a public-policy blog published by the American Enterprise Institute. It is reprinted here with permission.

Because Iran treats us as an adversary

I do not advocate a more confrontational policy toward Iran lightly. I have no animus toward the Iranian people and would like nothing more than to see a peaceful relationship between our countries. Throughout my career, I have advocated engagement and even rapprochement whenever I believed that there was an Iranian leadership that might be interested in the same. While still in government, I hoped the Iranian presidency of Hashemi Rafsanjani would allow for a thaw and cheered President George H.W. Bush’s famous overture to Iran that “goodwill begets goodwill.” In the late 1990s, I was President Clinton’s director for Persian Gulf affairs at the NSC and ardently supported his bid at rapprochement with Iran’s reformist president, Mohamed Khatami. Similarly, when the Obama administration sought not only a nuclear deal with Iran but a full-fledged transformation of the relationship, I publicly and privately supported them as well. I was admittedly more skeptical of the prospects than they were at first, but I believed that the U.S. could get a good deal on the nuclear front and completely agreed with them that it was worth trying to see if such a deal could be the first step toward a wider reconciliation.


Offline kkwd

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1752 on: May 02, 2018, 16:13:27 »
Quote
North Korea reportedly hands Trump another big win by releasing US prisoners

According to early reports North Korea is releasing 3 US citizens. It is not a widespread story as of yet so check your favourite news source after for more info.

Quote
Kim Dong-cheol, Kim Sang-deok, and Kim Hak-seong — three US citizens detained in North Korea for years — have been released from a suspected labor camp and given health treatment and ideological education in Pyongyang.

http://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-releases-us-prisoners-2018-5
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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1753 on: May 02, 2018, 19:36:03 »
I can never remember.  Is their surnames first, followed by the rest.  So effectively they're all Mr. Kims?

Offline Dimsum

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1754 on: May 02, 2018, 20:03:27 »
I can never remember.  Is their surnames first, followed by the rest.  So effectively they're all Mr. Kims?

Yes.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1755 on: May 02, 2018, 20:15:35 »
Yes.

Thanks.  Kim must be the Smith of Korea then.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1756 on: May 30, 2018, 13:55:57 »
Interesting if counterintuitive idea: The DPRK's interest in negotiations stems from the idea the United States will ensure the Kim Regime can stay in power? While the idea of the Kime regime remaining in power in its current form is pretty abhorrent, changing out some of the current political and control mechanisms of the Kim regime while laving Kim in power as "president for life" or something else might actually make sense:

https://www.lifezette.com/polizette/does-kim-see-trump-as-his-savior/

Quote
Does Kim See Trump as His Savior?
Former U.S. Army vice chief of staff Jack Keane said N. Korean leader is looking at staying secure and in power for years
by Kathryn Blackhurst | Updated 30 May 2018 at 1:35 PM

North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un is willing to negotiate denuclearization because he views President Donald Trump as his long-term ticket for remaining in power and gaining security for his regime, retired four-star Army Gen. Jack Keane said Tuesday on Fox News’ “America’s Newsroom.”
 
“[Kim’s] number one concern is not prosperity, not economic — certainly that’s important to him. I’m not suggesting it’s not. But clearly this has always been about security,” Keane said. “Why nuclear weapons? Why ballistic missiles? Why pointing them at the United States? All because he wants his regime to be secure and stay in power.”

Noting that Kim is “a young man” in his 30s who is “looking at many, many years down the road,” Keane emphasized that the North Korean leader “wants this regime to stay in power. And clearly that’s got to be on the table, and we will have to provide him some kind of guarantor for that as part of our negotiations and our concessions.”

Kim stunned the world when he agreed to a June 12 summit meeting, in Singapore with Trump, that would mark the first such gathering since the communist nation first formed in 1948. But Trump canceled the meeting Thursday “based on the tremendous anger and open hostility” displayed after a North Korean official bashed Vice President Mike Pence while threatening to instigate a nuclear showdown.

But Trump’s cancellation seemed to spark renewed efforts by Kim to get the summit meeting back on track, if not for June 12, then at a later date. After Kim met for a second time with South Korean President Moon Jae-in over the weekend, the North Korean leader sent one of his top officials, Kim Yong-chol, to the U.S. this week to meet with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and continue the planning discussions. Kim Yong-chol is the most senior member of a North Korean regime to set foot on U.S. soil since 2000.
 
Keane, the former vice chief of staff of the U.S. Army and now a Fox News contributor, told host Bill Hemmer that Kim is strategizing how best to attain his ultimate goal: regime security.

Full article at link
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1757 on: May 30, 2018, 15:34:39 »
I suspect that General Keane is right.

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1758 on: June 06, 2018, 19:39:58 »
Heard on TV that NOK, as a negotiating point for nuc free country, may go for withdraw of all NOK and ROK troops from the armistice area, replaced by troops from other country's, incl China.

Will these foreign troops incl Nations who contributed to the UN Forces? Weren't the Chinese "Volunteers" during the Korean War? Canada's forces were also volunteers, so I can see there will be real interest by Trudeau to deploy an Inf Bn +.

Back to Korea
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1759 on: June 11, 2018, 11:27:32 »
UN Command is responsible for the Joint Security Area at PanMunJaum.The commander is an Army LTC with a ROK Army LTC as deputy and commands the ROK troops.Trump has changed his schedule probably for security reasons.But talks are said to be progressing.Whatever that means in reality.I suspect that Kim wants US forces out of Korea,currently US troops are rotated into Korea and the US would love to free those troops up for contingencies.The ROK Army is far stronger than years ago.The weakness of the ROKs is felt to be airpower. With US bases in Japan they could still assist the ROK if needed.

New schedule.

https://apnews.com/f4a5201ceceb44f896e2e497537ba116/US-says-NKorea-talks-moving-quickly,-Trump-to-leave-early

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1760 on: June 12, 2018, 07:55:57 »
President Trump has agreed to stopping war games in south Korea. It was something the North has complained about.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-to-stop-war-games-in-south-korea-trump-says/ar-AAywWMA?ocid=spartandhp

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1761 on: June 12, 2018, 08:18:27 »
This is a truly interesting time.  I wonder if the Kim Regime will eventually go the way of China under Deng Xiaoping?  Maybe that is Kim's goal?

I don't care what people say about Trump or this summit, any move to make the world a safer place is a good move in my books!

Offline Dimsum

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1762 on: June 12, 2018, 08:34:47 »
This is a truly interesting time.  I wonder if the Kim Regime will eventually go the way of China under Deng Xiaoping?  Maybe that is Kim's goal?

I don't care what people say about Trump or this summit, any move to make the world a safer place is a good move in my books!

Agreed, but I'm not convinced that Trump make this happen (with Dennis Rodman).  This has "China" written all over it.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline QV

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1763 on: June 12, 2018, 10:18:24 »
Agreed, but I'm not convinced that Trump make this happen (with Dennis Rodman).  This has "China" written all over it.

There is no doubt China had a lot of influence on NK - thanks to pressure from Trump.

If you disagree, curious then as to why this didn't happen under Obama's eight years? Or Bush, or Clinton...or...


Offline tomahawk6

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1764 on: June 12, 2018, 10:24:51 »
Dictators have self interest with regard to their continuation.Kim isn't going away unless deposed which probably not going to happen unless China makes it happen.

Offline GAP

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1765 on: June 12, 2018, 10:26:57 »
Clinton got played by the same type of rhetoric put out by NK....no meeting, lots of promises, lessening of restrictions, etc....it was all a sham to cover illicit activity
 :2c:
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1766 on: June 12, 2018, 10:40:14 »
Anything that lessens the threat of war is good for everyone.

Offline Colin P

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1767 on: June 12, 2018, 10:45:48 »
President Trump has agreed to stopping war games in south Korea. It was something the North has complained about.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-to-stop-war-games-in-south-korea-trump-says/ar-AAywWMA?ocid=spartandhp

And as soon as NK breaks their agreement, a wargame can start.

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1768 on: June 12, 2018, 17:02:37 »
You would be correct that said wargames could be restarted.Maybe deploy a battle group. ;D

Offline tomahawk6

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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1770 on: June 14, 2018, 17:07:11 »
The latest nit to pick is that Trump saluted a North Korean General. :tsktsk:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-returns-salute-of-north-korean-general-at-summit-state-media-footage-reveals/ar-AAyDTTQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=yuQwntXCq5o

??? Not sure what protocol MSN's retired Admiral is referring to, but the North Korean general out of respect (deference) was saluting the visiting Head of State, or more accurately in military circles, the U.S. Military Commander-in-Chief (CinC/CINC).  US CINC returning a salute is a respectful acknowledgement of the originating protocol deference.

I may not always see things the way Trump supporters do, but in this case, those complaining are way off the mark.  The only awkwardness was perhaps POTUS going for a handshake first, but in the confines inside, that's understandable and certainly not worthy of molehills being ballooned into mountains.

:2c:

Regards
G2G

Offline Remius

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1771 on: June 14, 2018, 17:50:15 »
Agreed. People are making more of a deal out of this than it should be.


Optio

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1772 on: June 15, 2018, 10:16:32 »
I have full confidence in Kim playing games and Trump saying FU, lets have a wargame. There will be little patience for NK games during this POTUS tenure.

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: North Korea (Superthread)
« Reply #1773 on: June 15, 2018, 16:57:10 »

Offline tomahawk6

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« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 00:19:04 by tomahawk6 »