Author Topic: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance  (Read 82530 times)

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2010, 22:09:58 »
Go in to your armories parade for night to be taken off of NES and then ask to be placed on ED&T. That may give you enough time to sort your crap out.  If not go in to your work and ask to be released.

If you STAY on NES then like everyone is saying you will get kicked out of the military.
That looks horrible for ANY job you apply for.  I wouldn't hire you.   You may not make it to be a teacher either.
You're also owe thousands of dollars to the government for you're equipment.
Good luck getting a student loan for teachers college when you owe the government 4 grand.
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Offline readytogo

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2010, 11:26:02 »
Good Morning everyone,

          As I am having a difficult time getting a hold of My COC can anyone tell me....while im on course (weekend BMQ) am I still required to attend to the CO determined 70% of my parade nights to avoid NES status???


RTG :cdn:
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Offline toughenough

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2010, 11:52:06 »
This depends on your unit. I'd err on the side of caution until you confirm it with your CoC though.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2010, 12:10:33 »
If you are on Course, you are parading and getting paid by your Unit.  Don't worry.  You will not be considered NES.  In fact many units will tell their people who are on weekend BMQ NOT to come in on Parade nights as they don't have any training for them to do.

After all the above, make sure you do confirm with your Chain of Command what they expect of you.
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Offline readytogo

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2010, 12:17:30 »
Thank you tough enough and Mr. Wallace, it seems email is the best course of contact for my COC so hopefully they get back to me before tonight


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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2015, 23:37:05 »
Hate to bump an old thread, but I figured it was for good cause.

Anyone have a live link for the NES Policy? Every link for CMP Instruction 20/04 is dead and I am having a tough time finding much in the DAODs and QR&Os (my googlefu is not great).

Much appreciated.
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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2015, 03:12:56 »
I wouldn't be surprised if it was in a CFAO.
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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2015, 07:32:58 »
Hate to bump an old thread, but I figured it was for good cause.

Anyone have a live link for the NES Policy? Every link for CMP Instruction 20/04 is dead and I am having a tough time finding much in the DAODs and QR&Os (my googlefu is not great).

Much appreciated.

Not from an official DND site, so I can't swear it's up to date: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/55794704/ADM-HR-MIL-INSTRUCTION-2004-ADM-HR-MIL-INSTRUCTION-20-04

Otherwise, on the DWAN, search for Mil Pers Instruction 20/04.
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Offline citydweller

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2015, 20:58:21 »
I was in the reserves in 1993 for three years.  I got a job in another city 2 hours away and wanted to transfer to a unit in the new city.  I was told I had to go visit that unit and ask to transfer.  I paraded with that unit 1 night and had an interview with the RSM in his office.  He said the transfer would be no problem.  I forget how much time went by but my original unit called me to say I was NES.  I went back to where my original unit is, which was difficult because I had no car and nowhere to stay there.  They told me they checked with the other unit and was told they had no record of me being there and they asked if I got the registered mail and I had not.  I asked if somebody had signed indicating they received the letter and they had no answer.  I was under the impression that a signature was required with registered mail.  I did not want to leave the military but figured I had no choice and was quite disgusted by the administrative bungling.  How can they defend our country if they can't do something this simple?  I got an honourable discharge.  I have been told that the military has been overhauled since then and that these kind of things were more common back in those days.

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2015, 21:08:58 »
I was in the reserves in 1993 for three years.  I got a job in another city 2 hours away and wanted to transfer to a unit in the new city.  I was told I had to go visit that unit and ask to transfer.  I paraded with that unit 1 night and had an interview with the RSM in his office.  He said the transfer would be no problem.  I forget how much time went by but my original unit called me to say I was NES.  I went back to where my original unit is, which was difficult because I had no car and nowhere to stay there.  They told me they checked with the other unit and was told they had no record of me being there and they asked if I got the registered mail and I had not.  I asked if somebody had signed indicating they received the letter and they had no answer.  I was under the impression that a signature was required with registered mail.  I did not want to leave the military but figured I had no choice and was quite disgusted by the administrative bungling.  How can they defend our country if they can't do something this simple?  I got an honourable discharge.  I have been told that the military has been overhauled since then and that these kind of things were more common back in those days.

Other than the registered mail and if we're capable of defending the country questions, is there something you were asking?

Or were you just venting?
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Offline citydweller

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2015, 21:27:35 »
I was not asking anything.  I was just describing my personal experience.  I am quite sure that if required, I could have proven I had paraded with the other unit as I signed-in there and sat in the mess and people saw me and talked with me.  I was wearing a completely different cap badge, etc.  I could also prove that I did not receive the registered mail:

"Registered Mail is a service offered to customers who require proof of mailing and/or proof of delivery. The service secures the signature of the addressee or the addressee’s representative and provides the sender with a mailing receipt, a copy of the signature and the date upon delivery of the item."

https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGregister-e.asp

I suppose, out of curiosity, I could ask what I should have done differently or what is the normal procedure.  I was just following the instructions given to me.  As it was it took considerably more time to get out of the military and more trouble because the unit had to drive me to CFB Borden to turn in all my kit.  I am considering joining the reserves again at this time and I wonder if they are any more organized today than they were back then.  Thanks.

Offline CountDC

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2015, 17:04:11 »
NES - my fav   >:D  Fire them all, sue them all and be damn if I am sending an honourable release certificate.

First Registered Mail - we don't need to prove you recieved it, only that it was sent.  large number of times the member has moved without providing a new address so the notice will be returned unclaimed.  Even if it is signed for it doesn't have to be you, just someone at the address you provided. NES release continues.

Transfer Request - had to visit new unit? Wow.  Your unit sure liked to create extra work for themselves as they ended up dealing with a long distance release rather than setting up the transfer prior.  What should have happened was you submit the req through your chain.  Once the CO approves then the clerks send the req out through the command chain.  The gaining unit will do what they want to decide if they want you or not.  Some will talk to the Adjt of your unit, some will want to talk to you and some will even reply with a change to attach posting for obervation prior to a full posting.

What you should have done differently was submit your request well in advance and follow up on it.  By what you indicate you showed up at the new unit once, talked to the RSM and didn't go back or contact your unit thus the NES action.  I am betting more than 30 days had passed before they called you.

Seems to me the unit also went above and beyond to assist you.  They didn't have to drive you to Borden to return your kit, that is your responsibilty.

The system has changed and improved greatly.  We no longer have to go through all the stupid hoops that we had to back then to get rid of people that go NES.  Shorter and easier process now to the good bye door if your CO will follow regulations.

Did I mention I love NES?
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2015, 10:22:24 »
In the past, did they not recover the monies in kit from NES folks who'd dropped off the face of the earth by going thru CRA and adding it onto your taxes somehow, or is that and old urban legend?
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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #63 on: October 15, 2015, 11:42:25 »
I did not want to leave the military but figured I had no choice ...

Yet -

I am quite sure that if required, I could have proven I had paraded with the other unit

So my question (as was Counts) was did you or did you not want to remain in the Reserves? Or just want a story to complain about how you were "wronged"? Another easy thing would have been to request the RSM, whom you had an intimate conversation with, contact you previous unit and say "By George, yes. He DID show up here." Unless there is a reason he couldn't vouch for you...
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #64 on: October 15, 2015, 12:25:26 »
How can they defend our country if they can't do something this simple?
The same way we defend the country with reservists who join the military to "help defend Canada" but never show up for work.

On occasion I've found that the reserve unit shits the bed and places members on NES and releases them without doing due diligence to get the member back in/follow the proper steps.

The majority of the time I've found it's because members were lazy, didn't want to honour their commitment and thought they could hide at home and ignore the army until they go away.

Dealing with irate parents making excuses for their children hiding in the basement was a favorite of mine.
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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #65 on: October 15, 2015, 14:32:38 »
Dealing with irate parents making excuses for their children hiding in the basement was a favorite of mine.

 :o

That would be fun!  >:D
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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #66 on: October 15, 2015, 15:47:21 »
In the past, did they not recover the monies in kit from NES folks who'd dropped off the face of the earth by going thru CRA and adding it onto your taxes somehow, or is that and old urban legend?

I think that one is an Urban Legend.   From what I understand, the Unit had to attempt recovery of the kit (ie; phone, mailed out letters, etc)   If the kit wasn't returned, it was costed out and the file sent into maybe the JAG realm in Ottawa.   At the end of the day, the debt to the Crown was sold to a Collection Agency.    hahaha

The really bad thing and kick to the family jewels, is that these people were usually released "5.f.".    Good luck getting back into any component of the CF as a result, because it ain't happening.      :o
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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #67 on: October 15, 2015, 17:38:11 »
I think that one is an Urban Legend.   From what I understand, the Unit had to attempt recovery of the kit (ie; phone, mailed out letters, etc)   If the kit wasn't returned, it was costed out and the file sent into maybe the JAG realm in Ottawa.   At the end of the day, the debt to the Crown was sold to a Collection Agency.    hahaha

The really bad thing and kick to the family jewels, is that these people were usually released "5.f.".    Good luck getting back into any component of the CF as a result, because it ain't happening.      :o

Actually, any government job, not just the CAF.
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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #68 on: October 15, 2015, 17:44:55 »
Actually, any government job, not just the CAF.

Really?   Always wondered whether or not there would be some sort of "collateral" damage incurred.
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Offline CountDC

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2015, 18:31:50 »
The kit listing goes off to the JAG who will take whatever action to recover the funds.

Now mbrs can get back in but it is even more fun than the original enrolment.  I hear at least 2 years of jumping through hoops at the CFRC.   >:D   Sooo... isnt that what everyone is going through?

My issue with NES - you joined, agreed to parade and return your kit when leaving.  Instead walk off with thousands of dollars in kit and still get honourably released??  If a Cpl sitting in a jail can call to arrange for his kit return why can't the guy roaming free get it done?  Who really is the honourable one?
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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #70 on: October 21, 2015, 20:51:10 »
The really bad thing and kick to the family jewels, is that these people were usually released "5.f.".    Good luck getting back into any component of the CF as a result, because it ain't happening.      :o

Not quite true.  I am on a BOI right now for a Cpl who was released 5f late 1990s from Cornwallis.  Was re-enrolled into the regular force 7 years ago.  Only required a waiver from the CDS's office.  No other hoops to jump through other than the "normal" stuff.
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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2015, 07:30:08 »
A waiver from the CDS constitutes a hoop.
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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2015, 09:06:55 »
I am on a BOI right now for a Cpl who was released 5f late 1990s from Cornwallis.  Was re-enrolled into the regular force 7 years ago.  Only required a waiver from the CDS's office.  No other hoops to jump through other than the "normal" stuff.

From what I understood of "5F Release questions/answers (merged)", overcoming a 5F sounds like a very high hoop.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 09:17:30 by mariomike »

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2016, 01:45:44 »
Can someone confirm with me? I have seen many postings on this thread saying NES is missing 3 consecutive training days and some saying 5 training days? can anyone confirm? thanks

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Re: Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2016, 03:17:14 »
I swore in last week, but i was unsure of when I would be swearing in so I have a 2 week vacation booked 3 weeks from now. In which I'll be missing 3 parade nights. Now I'm wondering should I put in an EDandT request to avoid going NES or just inform them that I will be gone for 3 parade nights.