Author Topic: Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)  (Read 956006 times)

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Offline Open Circuit

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meni0n, as I understand it the during the 1st phase of the restructure the current LCIS will be placed in either the CST or IST. As well the currrent Sigops will either be placed in the ACISS core or the IST. The ACISS core will be your typical Sigop duties while IST is the IS support and maintenance. I think they are looking at providing POET to all the sub trades, CST, IST and LST. Not sure how it will be incorporated but I would think it would be like a TQ4 or an entry level course once selected for one of the sub trades.

Offline meni0n

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So current sigops looking to go IST will have to take POET then. I wonder what kind of postings will be available for that subtrade.

Offline Open Circuit

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Postings should be no differernt then they are now, the jobs are being done now by Sigops and LCIS and will continue to be done by IST. Nothing changes.


Offline 1984

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I recently attended the MES briefing and I think this is a great initiative.

Great how?  By turning a bunch of specialists into Mediocre tradesmen?  The only trade this is good for is the Sig Ops and leaves those who like their current trade nothing to look forward to past Sgt, some retention strategy.  Become a Sigs Tp WO?  Run a CP?  Blah!  MES is nothing more that an initiative to save the sinking ship that is the Sig Op trade by stealing troops from those of us who are healthy.

Cheers,

Offline Open Circuit

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I think you need to educate yourself more on the new structure. The sub occupations of CST, IST and LST (for definitions see previous thread) will train to the same level or higher that they are currently being trained. At the WO/MWO rank (Technology Managers) the same opportunities will exist, linked to their sub occupations. Yes, if you desire you may be considered for a Tp WO position, could be a Tp of CST, IST or LST. I am sure you have WOs employed in your occupation now, may or may not call them Tp WOs but the supervisory role remains the same. As a tradesman, you should appreciate the ability to operate the equipment you are maintaining, be it radios, telephones or computers. A little bit more education and experience never hurt anyone.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, or the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to Change.
Charles Darwin


Offline PuckChaser

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Great how?  By turning a bunch of specialists into Mediocre tradesmen?  The only trade this is good for is the Sig Ops and leaves those who like their current trade nothing to look forward to past Sgt, some retention strategy.  Become a Sigs Tp WO?  Run a CP?  Blah!  MES is nothing more that an initiative to save the sinking ship that is the Sig Op trade by stealing troops from those of us who are healthy.

Cheers,

You could always get your trade to opt out of MES and therefore opt yourself out of the possibility of spec pay. I won't even get into the ridiculousness of the rest of your statement, as I prefer to respect other trades based on the unique skills they bring to the battlefield, and not call out a trade as a "sinking ship".

Offline 1984

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I wish I lived in the same rose coloured world that Open Cct occupies, we will still be slaves to the Mangler's shop, since when did you ever have a choice?  As for the "sinking ship" comment, it refers to manning not skill sets or personalities, don't get all bent out of shape by reading ill will into this.  Nobody asked us what we wanted and I am entitled to my opinion, I enjoy my job as it is, why would the chance of Spec Pay make me love a dumb idea?  Ask the Air force how trade amalgamation worked for them.  Since this is a done deal, I will just have to wait and see how it all works out, doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.  I hope I'm wrong and it turns out to be the best thing since sliced bread, but, somehow I doubt that will be the case.

Offline signalsguy

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Swingline, FWIW I think you're spot on. This is going to be very bad. I'm pretty sure its being driven forward because certain people have invested too much into it... they don't want to fail. When it all fails anyway, they'll be long gone...

Offline Open Circuit

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All the more reason to get informed. I suspect you were not involved in the survey, there was one. During the briefing I had, it was mentioned we could send up our concerns and recommendations through the chain of command. We have an opportunity to influence the process. Simply complaining will not help. We have all been taught if you have a problem, propose a solution! You can either be part of the solution or you can be part of the problem - your choice!

Offline 1984

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Are you in the marketing department for this project (you're not doing a very good job)?  It is hard to be as "informed" as you would like me to be if the info is not readily available to everyone.  As for the CoC they know even less, as I have already engaged them on this issue.  I would really like to know what part/level of the military you are in where project managers actually listen to your specific recommendations, or ask for your input, on these types of high level projects that get poured out on us like so much boiling oil from the ramparts of the Ivory tower.  I'm glad you're so invested, it gives me someone to blame when it all comes crashing down.   :salute:

Cheers,

Offline bigdaddyfatback

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I think it is just a job save project for the Sig Ops too.
At the MES brief I went to, there was a CWO representing LCIS, Line and Sig Ops....
Who did all of the talking....The Sig Op Chief....
The LCIS and Line Chiefs never said a word.
It just made me feel that perhaps they were not in agreement with what was being implemented (My personal opinion).

I do hope it all works out in the end, and I will do my job regardless, I just hope that we LCIS and Line guys do not get hosed.

I take a lot of pride in being an LCIS Tech and I know the Line guys and Sigs do too.

Was it like this when they did away with Teletype ops/techs?

Offline Open Circuit

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BigDaddyFatback - as an LCIS Tech myself, I too enjoy being a technician. Our trade by the way is identified as a distressed trade. So to say the MES initiative is only meant to save the Sig Ops is not entirely accurate, this will also help save the our trade. We will be called something different but at the end of the day we will continue to be techncians. I also lived through the several amalgamations we have had in the past, like when the Tel Techs became LCIS Techs. I can tell you this plan seems to be more viable then the plan they had back then. I am sure they have learned form previous experiences in order to adopt them to this new structure. I need to stress here, this is not an amalgamation but a restructure. There will continue to be Operators, Techncians and lineman, although they will be called something different (ACISS, CST, IST, LST) and will belong to a corp occupation. I am curious, what would you propose to ensure we have a strong, techncially viable trade in the future? How would you deal with the lack of recruiting and retention? How would you deal with an overlap of responsibilies (Operators and techncians doing the same IS function) while being paid differently. I hear a lot of nay-sayers about this restructure but have not heard of any brilliant ideas on how to address our current problems! Do you think we should keep the status quo? Can we continue to put bandaids on our ability to sustain ourselves? Technology is evolving, time to change to remain relevant or get out of the way for someone or somthing that will be.

Offline PuckChaser

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The whole restructure is going to be FUBAR for the next few years, it is with any large change initiative. Long term? Probably will sort out some of the major issues including getting boots on the ground where they are needed. I can see the Linemen side of view, heck I'd be up in arms if my trade was 100% manned, why rock the boat when its obviously working for your end? I really can't forsee the Line trade changing in anything but name when MES finally goes through, or at least from the briefings I've been given. LCIS and SigOp are the real trades affected by the restructure, and it will take us a lot of time to get things right. OC is right when he (my apologies if you are a she, profile doesn't state) says there is a lot of duplication of effort going on in the technical side and we need to sort that out. Giving us more trade options can probably assist in retention, especially if troops are given a choice based not just on technical ability but what they want to do. I have a college diploma for computer networking, but I love working in TacRad. Placing people into jobs they do not want to do (within reason, some people just whine) is what can kill a trade very easily.

Offline MOOXE

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Its hard to see anyone getting hosed in this deal. I have never seen very much esprit du corps within sigs for anyone in any of the trades to be particularly disturbed about whats happening. The jobs that we are doing right now are still the jobs we need getting done year after year. Its really just another way to train the new folks and send them off to thier respective postings. I am not even sure its worth debating for us.

Offline Xcalibar

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So, can someone tell me if I'm a ACISS OP yet, or still just a Sig Op?  From the briefing I had back in December, this was supposed to go in effect in April 09.  Out here on the Left Coast, I hear precious little of what is going on in the C&E world.

Offline Crossfire

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Your still a Sig Op.

aesop081

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  Out here on the Left Coast, I hear precious little of what is going on in the C&E world.

Even out on the left coast, you have access to EMAA and all your trade information.

Offline Xcalibar

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Even out on the left coast, you have access to EMAA and all your trade information.

I figured as much.  I just wanted to be sure.  Thanks.

Offline PuckChaser

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We should start a pool to see if there will be an announcement that the MES project is going to be stopped, or if it'll just fade to prevent some hurt feelings...

Offline meni0n

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I got 5$ that it will eventually be implemented but be a huge headache.

Offline Feelix

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I'd like to know if we have new informations about this amalgamation... When the first troop will start ???

Offline Jammer

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The details still being worked out at the Army level. The CLS has yet to formally sign off on it, however we at CFSCE are anticipating the first crse to begin some time in FY 2010.
What could possibly go wrong?

Offline HeadLamp

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 So does that mean all the 3's courses that got pushed back to December 4th are still only the 5(6?) month variants of the course? We had a few guys that had October 09-10 on their course loading sheets and we figured it meant the course got lengthened for this amalgamation. Unfortunately no real info is passed our way so we're just hearing rumours right now.

Offline Jammer

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Read my previous post again.
Are you reg or reserve?
No changes to Reg Sig Op Apprentice crses until summer 2010 at the earliest.
You have to have SQ and Dvr wheel before showing up for your crse here, that would explain the change in training time.
What could possibly go wrong?

Offline Feelix

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my QL3 are supposed to start on november 2... (french course) if they don't change the date again and again lol...

Do i still expecting those date with the old system... or they will push the date and wait till the almagation will be ready ???