Author Topic: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled  (Read 66844 times)

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Offline Lil_T

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2009, 14:24:34 »
yeesh - this is going to be my oldest in another 5 years if he doesn't smarten the hell up.  I take my responsibility very seriously.  I go to every parent teacher, I try to work with his teachers to work out a plan to help him out.  I have sat down with him on numerous occasions trying desperately to get him to understand what he's learning.  This "new math" by the way is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

 I do blame the administrators. If my son is not grasping the subject matter and isn't meeting the outcomes he should, then he should fail the year.  Is there shame in failing a grade?  Sure - but sometimes it's the kick in the butt a kid needs to get it in gear.  I will admit, when I was in grade 10 I didn't take school all that seriously.  Skipped class, did very very little except in a couple of classes.  Guess what?  I failed the grade.  So when I had to repeat grade 10 the following year I worked twice as hard and didn't skip class at all.  Lesson learned.  Nothing quite like watching the majority of your friends - people you've known since you were 5 - leave you behind senior year.  Do I want that for my son?  Of course not.  But he is lazy and doesn't want to do the work that's required.  Because of that, I've got no qualms whatsoever about him failing a grade.  I've basically told his teachers to fail him if he's not getting it.  But they keep pushing him along.  I know he's screwed if he decides to go to university.  He has no study skills and there's little I can do short of duct taping him to a chair with the books in front of him.  Mind you, he'd actually have to bring the books home first.

It's an aggravating situation. The administrators carry out these hare-brained ideas.  The teachers' hands are tied to do anything in opposition to the boards.  The students (some of them) take advantage, and the parents are often left wondering WTF just happened? I fear for his post-secondary future.  I feel like I failed him, even though I've done everything I can, short of doing the work for him.  There are some places I will not go as a parent and that is one of them.  I will not be that crazy mother phoning the Dean because he's failing something.   

How to stop this sense of entitlement among post secondary students?  To quote the title of another post on army.ca       LET THEM FAIL!  It's not nice, but it gets the point across.
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Offline ex-Sup

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2009, 14:37:35 »
LET THEM FAIL!  It's not nice, but it gets the point across.
This has been my point all along. It's the system, and who influences the "system," us; society. It is the voters/taxpayers in ON (or wherever) that control what happens. Someone pointed the finger at teachers, and that it starts with us. I don't set policy, politicians do. I only follow the rules that are set out for me.

As a side note, I failed Gr.11 math. Nothing special, I just sucked at math and didn't work as hard as I needed to. The only thing I ever failed  :(
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Offline Lil_T

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2009, 14:44:26 »
As a side note, I failed Gr.11 math. Nothing special, I just sucked at math and didn't work as hard as I needed to. The only thing I ever failed  :(

I failed grade 10 Math, and it was one of the classes I actually went to and worked at.  Went to summer school and had no mark below 100.  Go figure.
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Offline ballz

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2009, 15:42:46 »
Now I’m a bit out of my lane here, but most I would venture they receive little. I can only remember one prof I had at LU had a B.Ed. I’m not saying that a teaching degree automatically makes one better, but I would imagine that it has got to help. Most profs are there to do research and teaching is something that comes with the job; I think this why there are a lot of sessional lecturers out there. That being said, I did have some great profs, even if they are not trained teachers. However, there were some that limited their “instruction” to reading the text. There are good and bad everywhere; like I said before, some are not cut out to teach. The profs that do a better job are probably more comfortable and have a natural inclination to do the job.

I don't want to push the wrong buttons here, but I've found as the student and as a tutor to my friends sometimes, that the ability to teach is hardly something that can be taught. I'm not sure what material gets covered in an education degree, but I'll explain my lack of faith in it like this.

When I was in elementary and junior high (so 95% of these teachers had an education degree only), I couldn't stand most of my teachers, as teachers (not as people). And no, I didn't have to deal with their teaching ability, or lack thereof, a whole lot, because I've always gotten things pretty easily. But it's frustrating to sit there with your peers and they don't get something and the teacher is too incompetent for the most part to make it make sense for them. I've seen people struggle and fail, not because of their own lack of effort or involvement, but because of the teacher's lack of ability.

Now move to high school, it was a lot harder to find somebody that couldn't teach. They all have education degrees, AND another degree. Does this mean they are more competent individuals? Well, it's not the be all end all of it, but it certainly points in that direction. Why is it that they're ability to teach was so much better? They only had bachelor's in education, just like the elementary and junior high teachers, but yet they're ability to teach was way better (even if it wasn't the subject of their degree, aka the science teachers usually taught something at the grade 11 level that wasn't their major).

Anyway, what I'm getting at is, I don't think an education degree qualifies one to be a teacher.

So when it comes to prof's, most of them I've dealt with are very competent (I've only found one out of 15 now that I would question) and able to teach, even though they lack an education degree. They're definitely better than the elementary and junior high teachers I had to deal with who DID have an education degree.
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Offline mediocre1

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2009, 16:11:33 »
This has been my point all along. It's the system, and who influences the "system," us; society. It is the voters/taxpayers in ON (or wherever) that control what happens. Someone pointed the finger at teachers, and that it starts with us. I don't set policy, politicians do. I only follow the rules that are set out for me.

As a side note, I failed Gr.11 math. Nothing special, I just sucked at math and didn't work as hard as I needed to. The only thing I ever failed  :(

With duee respect, super and this oone is not aimed at you. There are lots of factors  that takes one too long to mature. Sometimes, their parents are to blame. For me there are no bad parents. But if you spoil your children chances are it would be late for him/her to maature.

There are people who attend Sunday school. A large percentage of them mature fast.

Sometimes peer groups are the cause of late maturity. I belong to this group. It tookk me 45 years to mature. Now I am very conscious of my behaviour especially in this Country Canada where everyonoe should be very-lawabiding or else your future becoomes bleak.

Offline Piper

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2009, 16:55:57 »
With duee respect, super and this oone is not aimed at you. There are lots of factors  that takes one too long to mature. Sometimes, their parents are to blame. For me there are no bad parents. But if you spoil your children chances are it would be late for him/her to maature.

There are lots of bad parents out there. Lots.

Quote
There are people who attend Sunday school. A large percentage of them mature fast.

Sometimes peer groups are the cause of late maturity. I belong to this group. It tookk me 45 years to mature. Now I am very conscious of my behaviour especially in this Country Canada where everyonoe should be very-lawabiding or else your future becoomes bleak.


Huh?

Quote
I don't want to push the wrong buttons here, but I've found as the student and as a tutor to my friends sometimes, that the ability to teach is hardly something that can be taught. I'm not sure what material gets covered in an education degree, but I'll explain my lack of faith in it like this.

When I was in elementary and junior high (so 95% of these teachers had an education degree only), I couldn't stand most of my teachers, as teachers (not as people). And no, I didn't have to deal with their teaching ability, or lack thereof, a whole lot, because I've always gotten things pretty easily. But it's frustrating to sit there with your peers and they don't get something and the teacher is too incompetent for the most part to make it make sense for them. I've seen people struggle and fail, not because of their own lack of effort or involvement, but because of the teacher's lack of ability.

Now move to high school, it was a lot harder to find somebody that couldn't teach. They all have education degrees, AND another degree. Does this mean they are more competent individuals? Well, it's not the be all end all of it, but it certainly points in that direction. Why is it that they're ability to teach was so much better? They only had bachelor's in education, just like the elementary and junior high teachers, but yet they're ability to teach was way better (even if it wasn't the subject of their degree, aka the science teachers usually taught something at the grade 11 level that wasn't their major).

Anyway, what I'm getting at is, I don't think an education degree qualifies one to be a teacher.

So when it comes to prof's, most of them I've dealt with are very competent (I've only found one out of 15 now that I would question) and able to teach, even though they lack an education degree. They're definitely better than the elementary and junior high teachers I had to deal with who DID have an education degree.

Tutoring a few friends does not make you qualified to discount education degrees. Teaching in the public school system is frustrating beyond all imagination, I'm sure ex-Sup can attest to that. As per what was mentioned earlier, the vaste majority of teachers are good educators but are hamstrung by the system they work for. An education degree teaches you the skills you need to be a teacher and educate people; if a teacher is not familiar with the material they are teaching then that's a different issue. If a history teachers does not know the history they are teaching, that's not the fault of their education degree.

Quote
I'm not sure what material gets covered in an education degree

You quite obviously don't, I'm afraid.

Offline ballz

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2009, 17:28:00 »
An education degree teaches you the skills you need to be a teacher and educate people; if a teacher is not familiar with the material they are teaching then that's a different issue. If a history teachers does not know the history they are teaching, that's not the fault of their education degree.


First off, my personal experience and knowledge does qualify me to discount an education degree. I don't need any formal qualifications to form or voice an opinion.

You quite obviously aren't understanding what I'm saying. Nothing I said had anything to do with knowing your material, it was solely about where the ability to teach stems from, and I don't think it's from post-secondary education. I don't say that because I've tutored people, I say it based on all my experience. Somebody preferring come to me after school, who's in the same grade as them, rather than go to the teacher's classroom and ask the teacher, isn't bad evidence though.

In Alberta, they keep track of how each teacher's students perform on their Diploma exams. The school administration gets to see it, schools get ranked based on them actually (and it's published every year). It's an entirely standardized exam with a standard curriculum, there's not a whole lot of curve balls that can be thrown.

I had a Social Studies teacher who had a history degree and an education degree teaching my grade 12 level social studies course, this was her second time teaching it. She was brutal. No doubt in my mind she knew the material, but she was a terrible teacher. She'd put up the slides at the start of class to the end of class, and we're lucky if she said 20 words. She never elaborated, never asked questions, never brought in any material that might encourage us to ask questions. There were no assignments, just to "do the questions at the end of the chapter" and she would take in every 2nd or 3rd set and mark them, hand them back, and never go over any of it. Basically, she didn't even bother to encourage anybody to think.

Low and behold, we were the 2nd class to have sub-par results on our diplomas, and proof of it is that she no longer teaches grade 12 level courses.

She knew the material, it was simple stuff (fascism, communism, socialism, and free market), and she had an education degree, but she was still a bad teacher, despite her education degree.

Some people just aren't good teachers, and some people just are. Whether they have an education degree or not has seemed to have little effect on it from my personal experience.

If my opinion doesn't hold enough weight with you to consider it, that's fine. Don't tell me I'm not qualified to have one.
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Offline Piper

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2009, 17:41:36 »


First off, my personal experience and knowledge does qualify me to discount an education degree. I don't need any formal qualifications to form or voice an opinion.

You quite obviously aren't understanding what I'm saying. Nothing I said had anything to do with knowing your material, it was solely about where the ability to teach stems from, and I don't think it's from post-secondary education. I don't say that because I've tutored people, I say it based on all my experience. Somebody preferring come to me after school, who's in the same grade as them, rather than go to the teacher's classroom and ask the teacher, isn't bad evidence though.

In Alberta, they keep track of how each teacher's students perform on their Diploma exams. The school administration gets to see it, schools get ranked based on them actually (and it's published every year). It's an entirely standardized exam with a standard curriculum, there's not a whole lot of curve balls that can be thrown.

I had a Social Studies teacher who had a history degree and an education degree teaching my grade 12 level social studies course, this was her second time teaching it. She was brutal. No doubt in my mind she knew the material, but she was a terrible teacher. She'd put up the slides at the start of class to the end of class, and we're lucky if she said 20 words. She never elaborated, never asked questions, never brought in any material that might encourage us to ask questions. There were no assignments, just to "do the questions at the end of the chapter" and she would take in every 2nd or 3rd set and mark them, hand them back, and never go over any of it. Basically, she didn't even bother to encourage anybody to think.

Low and behold, we were the 2nd class to have sub-par results on our diplomas, and proof of it is that she no longer teaches grade 12 level courses.

She knew the material, it was simple stuff (fascism, communism, socialism, and free market), and she had an education degree, but she was still a bad teacher, despite her education degree.

Some people just aren't good teachers, and some people just are. Whether they have an education degree or not has seemed to have little effect on it from my personal experience.

If my opinion doesn't hold enough weight with you to consider it, that's fine. Don't tell me I'm not qualified to have one.

Your previous post completely discounted education degrees. Being a tutor or having been a student in a bad teacher's class does not give you any qualifications to discount this type of degree.

An educational degree does, in fact, set you up with the skills needed to be a teacher. Like any degree, these are only skills that need to be honed through experience and continuing education for the teacher. There will always be bad teachers, but for the most part they do a good job within the VERY restrictive constraints of the public education system.

People aren't 'born' teachers in the same way people aren't 'born' leaders.

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2009, 17:59:45 »
With duee respect, super and this oone is not aimed at you. There are lots of factors  that takes one too long to mature. Sometimes, their parents are to blame. For me there are no bad parents. But if you spoil your children chances are it would be late for him/her to maature.

There are people who attend Sunday school. A large percentage of them mature fast.

Sometimes peer groups are the cause of late maturity. I belong to this group. It tookk me 45 years to mature. Now I am very conscious of my behaviour especially in this Country Canada where everyonoe should be very-lawabiding or else your future becoomes bleak.

I'd really like for you to explain this.  As far as I and some others can tell, you're being anti-canadian.  Based on your previous posting history - this is a conclusion I am not hesitant to draw.

Consider this an official request.  Failure to clarify the true intent of your post will result in your future here becoming very bleak.

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Offline ballz

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2009, 18:31:36 »
Your previous post completely discounted education degrees. Being a tutor or having been a student in a bad teacher's class does not give you any qualifications to discount this type of degree.

An educational degree does, in fact, set you up with the skills needed to be a teacher. Like any degree, these are only skills that need to be honed through experience and continuing education for the teacher. There will always be bad teachers, but for the most part they do a good job within the VERY restrictive constraints of the public education system.

People aren't 'born' teachers in the same way people aren't 'born' leaders.

No, it didn't "completely discount education degrees." I said it quite clearly that the point I was getting at was "I don't think an education degree qualifies someone to be a teacher." And I stand by that and don't see how that "completely discounts" an education degree. I just think we need to raise the standards to which we hire teachers.

I'm not trying to say that teachers are born and that its just black and white like that. However, certain people will NEVER be able to be good teachers just like certain people will never learn to be good leaders. A large part of it is the hard-wiring you have, and that cannot be changed.

In sports and other areas of life, everybody seems to realize and accept that there are some people that can work as hard as they want all their life and they will never be good enough because they weren't born with the right skill sets. They accept that you need to be born with a certain level of talent to make it to the NHL.

For some reason, people aren't as ready to accept that it's the same with education. People suggest "if you work hard enough, you can learn it" and it's completely false. I can understand why a teacher would instill that attitude in a pupil, but to look back at it and believe it is just naive.

EDIT: Okay I'm gone completely off the topic now. Just to clear up, I don't think these problems we're complaining about are the teacher's faults, not in the least bit. More than happy to get back to the real topic.
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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2009, 18:50:18 »
For me there are no bad parents.

Then you are a friggin' idiot. Full stop.

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Offline Lil_T

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2009, 19:20:31 »
With duee respect, super and this oone is not aimed at you. There are lots of factors  that takes one too long to mature. Sometimes, their parents are to blame. For me there are no bad parents. But if you spoil your children chances are it would be late for him/her to maature.

False.

Quote
There are people who attend Sunday school. A large percentage of them mature fast.
  please elaborate! 

Quote
Sometimes peer groups are the cause of late maturity. I belong to this group. It tookk me 45 years to mature. Now I am very conscious of my behaviour especially in this Country Canada where everyonoe should be very-lawabiding or else your future becoomes bleak.
 

I don't think you are done yet. 

I also don't understand the point of your post.  Are you implying a lack of spirituality is the root cause of this widespread selfishness?
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2009, 19:34:03 »
People aren't 'born' teachers in the same way people aren't 'born' leaders.

I was set off by a post that I just stopped reading because the person who posted it couldn't tell the difference between such words as "there", "their", "they're" and "they are" but thought I could make it through this topic without commenting.  Wrong!  This comment, above, does need commenting on.  Just as people aren't "born teachers", nor are others "born leaders", an education and a certificate on their wall does not necessarily make them "teachers" or "leaders".  Unfortunately, our society has progressed digressed to the point that one needs a piece of paper hanging on their "I love me wall" to justify their hiring, especially by Government.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2009, 19:38:48 »
If one were to look back on articles written on these subjects in the 1970's, we would be seeing nothing has changed in the past 40 years.  One would have figured that the Education Institutions, the governments, etc would have improved in some measure; but no.  Instead it is just a case of "SALY".
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Offline Piper

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2009, 19:56:40 »
I was set off by a post that I just stopped reading because the person who posted it couldn't tell the difference between such words as "there", "their", "they're" and "they are" but thought I could make it through this topic without commenting.  Wrong!  This comment, above, does need commenting on.  Just as people aren't "born teachers", nor are others "born leaders", an education and a certificate on their wall does not necessarily make them "teachers" or "leaders".  Unfortunately, our society has progressed digressed to the point that one needs a piece of paper hanging on their "I love me wall" to justify their hiring, especially by Government.

I think previous posts I've made on this site indicate my distaste of credentialism.

However, I stand by my view that teachers are not born and a degree in education does help give the foundation needed to teach young students. My understanding of the way these degrees are taught (from a number of friends of mine who are taking the program) is that it is, unlike many degrees, much more 'hands on' and the theories taught are grounded in reality more so then other degrees. You need a starting point, somewhere, and an education degree does give people the theoretical and practical (through student teaching placements) foundation to start their career. Of course, being a good teacher requires more then just a piece of paper. But I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

Think of a teaching degree (or any degree I guess) as a QL3 course. Did you come off your 3's as a super-duper-armoured trooper? No. Did it give you the foundation needed to go on and gain experience and work in that environment? Yes. Same goes for a degree.

I don't put a lot of stock in higher education and I dislike the belief that a degree somehow implies that one is ready for anything, but it does help give people the foundation to move on in life. Looking back on my 4 years at school I must say that many people (myself included) are often too quick to discount liberal arts education.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2009, 20:03:17 »
Piper

I agree with you.  An education can help greatly, but at the same time, it doesn't necessarily provide the ideal solution, all the time.  If you look a little deeper into "Government" and what pieces of paper are expected, and who is hired and who is not; it is often not the person with the real knowledge and experience, but the person who has that "piece of paper on the wall".  That other extreme is a problem, but we are wandering off topic if we go much further into other agencies hiring practices.
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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2009, 20:14:09 »
Quote
Quote from: mediocre1 on Today at 16:11:33
For me there are no bad parents.


Then you are a friggin' idiot. Full stop.

He's probably just a mediocre thinker.   8)
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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2009, 20:59:23 »
Oh so many responses, where to start?

First off, as I’ve said before on this site, I am not the end all and be all. I am not the most knowledgeable, nor the most experienced teacher around. Yoda I am not. However, I think my years in the profession and my experience do give me quite a bit of creditability.

Ballz, I appreciate your comments and you do raise some valid points. Yes, I will agree with you that having a B.Ed does not make one a “teacher.” Most teachers will tell you, whether they were in the 4/5 year concurrent program (like me) or the 1 year program, that teacher's college is a joke. I did have some good instructors, but some equally laughable. I remember one, nice enough guy, but he was older than dirt and hadn’t been in a classroom in 25+ years. What can you teach me about the realities of today’s schools? Another, again a great guy, but since he was on tenure, taught nothing close to what he was supposed to. He made us do seminars on the material he was supposed to teach; my favourite was when he wore his “a friend with weed is a friend indeed” t-shirt on the day a classmate brought her cousin the cop to class for the seminar. The only valuable things we learnt was when we did our placements (usually 2x5 weeks). I know from experience that even that was artificial; someone else’s classroom, rules and expectations for a short period of time. Even substitute teaching, which I did for a year and a half, lacks a lot of reality. Babysitting hooligans for the day with sometimes little to do is great (teaches you a lot about classroom management though!). I generally do not leave detailed lessons (a video if I can) as I want to teach it myself. The only real learning happens is when you get your own class, with your own rules and assigning/marking your own evaluations.

First off, my personal experience and knowledge does qualify me to discount an education degree. I don't need any formal qualifications to form or voice an opinion.
If my opinion doesn't hold enough weight with you to consider it, that's fine. Don't tell me I'm not qualified to have one.
Come again? No offence Ballz, but you have no qualifications! You may have experience as a student, but no knowledge. You are ENTITLED to an opinion, but not qualified. Let’s make that clear. As I’ve already mentioned, I’m not the authority, but I can back up what I have to say. I’ve gotten into many pissing matches on this site with members claiming to have “knowledge” on the subject. This may offend Piper, but I have some credentials and experience to back up what I say. I won’t list all my paperwork, but there’s a bunch (if you really care, I’ll send you to the College of Teachers to look at it). When you add that to 11+ years in the classrooms, 5+ years as a dept head (15+ teachers, nearly 70 sections), I think I might know a thing or two.
As far as I’m concerned, maybe the system is a bit flawed, but it gets sorted out in a hurry. New teachers realize quickly that they either perform or they won’t be getting hired (most teachers begin on contracts before they become permanent). I’ve seen it first hand; the majority tend to mend their ways. It is my firm belief that the educational system does give teachers some tools (see above), but you have to have the “knack.” A perfect example is the assumption that very smart people make great teachers. I’ve already mentioned that you to need to be fairly intelligent to become a teacher, but brains doesn’t necessarily translate into good pedagogy. My Gr.10 math teacher was a brilliant math and physics teacher; some of my peers thought he was great because he was so knowledgeable. I thought he was a mediocre teacher because he couldn’t understand why math dummies like me didn’t get the material. So what becomes the benchmark? How do we decide who gets in and who doesn’t? Maybe there should be an interview component, just like med school (I shudder to think what would happen if people became doctors simply based on their marks). I can’t see any changes coming down the pipe, so marks will continue to determine who becomes a teacher and those that can’t teach will find out soon enough.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat - fortune favours the bold!

Offline Piper

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2009, 21:07:15 »
Piper

I agree with you.  An education can help greatly, but at the same time, it doesn't necessarily provide the ideal solution, all the time.  If you look a little deeper into "Government" and what pieces of paper are expected, and who is hired and who is not; it is often not the person with the real knowledge and experience, but the person who has that "piece of paper on the wall".  That other extreme is a problem, but we are wandering off topic if we go much further into other agencies hiring practices.

Indeed.

Quote
This may offend Piper, but I have some credentials and experience to back up what I say.

How on earth would that offend me?

Offline ex-Sup

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #69 on: April 07, 2009, 21:48:18 »
I think previous posts I've made on this site indicate my distaste of credentialism.
Unless I misunderstood you   :)
Fortes Fortuna Juvat - fortune favours the bold!

Offline Another Mom

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2009, 22:03:13 »
To Ballz
    "There is an undergraduate college in the US that does not give out grades at all; feedback is qualitative.  Students work to learn, not for grades."

Your answer:
That may work for artsy fartsy stuff, but I would never hire an engineer, mathematician, scientist (take your pick), or accountant that came out of that school. I certainly wouldn't let a doctor that came out of that system cut me open either."
My reply:
The school I was talking about is not an "artsy fartsy" school but one  in which each undergrad (Including chemistry and physics students) does an independent research project  of which their oral defence is their final.  Many fine research projects and  inventions have come from that school and you would be darn lucky to have a doctor or acct that came from there.   One of their  physics students invented the optical reading devise for the compact disc.  He was not working for grades.

Having said that, I am biased. My kids could get As without much effort so we always emphasized "Did you work hard" "Did you learn something?" and we weren't impressed with the As. They are all really cool, hard working adults now.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 22:25:20 by Another Mom »

Offline Piper

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #71 on: April 07, 2009, 22:29:04 »
Unless I misunderstood you   :)

Ahhhhhhhh. Gotcha. I wasn't sure if it was a joke or you were being serious (were you?).

Credentialism can be defined as "a negative term used to describe a primary reliance on credentials for purposes of conferring jobs or social status". In other words, it refers to people getting hired for jobs or positions based solely on what pieces of paper hang on their walls.

Don't worry, you're in the clear in my books (not that it matters).  ;)

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #72 on: April 07, 2009, 22:46:38 »
From the Mail on line:

'Dyslexic children simply struggle to read': Expert claims tens of thousands are being falsely diagnosed

Quote
Tens of thousands of pupils are being falsely diagnosed with dyslexia because parents and schools failed to teach them to read properly, according to a leading academic.

Professor Joe Elliott, of Durham University, said parents whose children have trouble with reading often push for the dyslexic 'label' simply to secure extra help for them.

But in fact there are many children who simply struggle to read and require help at an early age.

He voiced his concerns as figures suggested a steep rise in the number of children being termed dyslexic.

Professor Elliot said that around one in ten children - more than a million - are now diagnosed with the condition, up from barely any two decades ago.

Figures from exams watchdog Ofqual have shown that the number of candidates granted extra help to pass their exams has doubled in just three years.

Schools agreed 105,000 requests for special assistance during exams in 2008 - usually in the form of extra time - compared with 44,000 in 2005. They have the discretion to agree up to 25 per cent of extra time - 45 minutes extra for a three-hour exam.

There was also an increase in the number of requests approved by exam boards for special help, though these normally relate to the more serious cases.

More at link.

Note the assigning of responsibility to parents and teachers.  Much of this thread has focussed on the students and teachers, rather than the role of parents in preparing their children for school, and life in general.


Offline ex-Sup

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #73 on: April 07, 2009, 22:55:22 »
Don't worry, you're in the clear in my books (not that it matters).  ;)
Good, because my papers are still in the folders that they gave me at graduation in 1996.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat - fortune favours the bold!

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
« Reply #74 on: April 07, 2009, 23:24:10 »
I've seen lots of people with nothing but Grade 10 and a PLQ instruct and teach alot better than some teachers with diplomas and degrees.

A diploma or degree makes you no more a teacher than a license makes you a Formula One driver.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.