Replacing the Subs

[Stoker]

Spec 1 was corrected to reflect the intention of spec pay. It was supposed to be a small boost over base pay, not pay S1s more than standard PO 2s. If trades need more pay, maybe the RCN should explore what the RCAF did with SAR Tech and other air crew trades.

Sure but it was certainly the talk of every Spec 1 tech who all of a sudden felt devalued. Every time a sailor gets less money in their pocket from a adjustment of a policy to ensure "fairness" its just a another reason to leave.

 

[KevinB]

Spec 1 was corrected to reflect the intention of spec pay. It was supposed to be a small boost over base pay, not pay S1s more than standard PO 2s. If trades need more pay, maybe the RCN should explore what the RCAF did with SAR Tech and other air crew trades.

SAR Tech isn’t a good example. It’s a trade that flies, jumps, and also jumps in not great terrain at times to conduct medical treatment and evacuations.
It and Assaulters at DHTC are categories in their own as far as risk and on call requirements.

I’d suggest it be more like Parachute allowance (or what it used to be)
Active jumping unit where one is jumping equals X
Casual Para =y/jump to a max of X

That way one would have Sea Duty for those on a ship and leaving port, but also an allowance for those who go out on a ship even if it’s their position (if that makes sense).

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sure but it was certainly the talk of every Spec 1 tech who all of a sudden felt devalued. Every time a sailor gets less money in their pocket from a adjustment its just a another reason to leave.

 

[Underway]

I'll let the navy people who feel sorry for themselves in on a secret; The rest of the CAF does lots of extra work outside of normal hours, including duty, and they don't get paid extra money each month to do it. Duty watches are compensated with time off. When I was a duty, I'd get a day in lieu if it was a weekend. If it wasn't a weekend, I'd get to slide on Friday...

I'll let you in on a little secret.

SDA is (was?) exactly the same as LDA. Its an environmental allowance.

Its not about extra work its about being "in the field". Army get LDA when they are posted to a field unit. And go home every night to their family. Its no different than being posted to a sea going unit and the ship isn't saililng for whatever reason.

because according to them, and some of the retired members here, the CAF is already paid too much.

We are paid a lot. And I'm not retired. There is no way I should be making as much money as I am doing what I'm doing right now. Civilians are paid less for the same work in industry (in my current postion). A lot less. In my previous I was paid comparatively to a civilian engineer for the same engineering job.

As far as pay is concerned, average Canadian household income is ~$72000. Household, not one person but house. Cpls can make that. Average Canadian individual income is ~$64000. Private 3 makes that. And those are not even including the pension, supplementary pay (Environmental allowances etc...) and benifits added in.

Top 25% income earners in Canada make ~$81000, top 10% earn ~$126000. Sgt can make top 25% and Capt's can almost reach top 10%.

However are we paid for what we do or are we paid for what we might have to do?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

However are we paid for what we do or are we paid for what we might have to do?

I suspect we are paid for what we do, but at a rate that reflects that we accepted to do what we do knowing fully what we might have to do as a result of our choice.

 

[Underway]

I suspect we are paid for what we do, but at a rate that reflects that we accepted to do what we do knowing fully what we might have to do as a result of our choice.

 

[MilEME09]

South Korea doubles down on its bid to equip the Royal Canadian Navy with its new KSS-III attack submarines

South Korean companies are doubling down on their bid to equip the Royal Canadian Navy with the new KSS-III attack submarines, intended to replace the

www.zona-militar.com

SK bid, 20-24B for the first 4 subs. That's s good deal

 

[PrairieFella]

South Korea doubles down on its bid to equip the Royal Canadian Navy with its new KSS-III attack submarines

South Korean companies are doubling down on their bid to equip the Royal Canadian Navy with the new KSS-III attack submarines, intended to replace the

www.zona-militar.com

SK bid, 20-24B for the first 4 subs. That's s good deal

Can we cite national security needs to prevent lawsuits and just sign this yesterday haha?

 

[k.numbers]

South Korea doubles down on its bid to equip the Royal Canadian Navy with its new KSS-III attack submarines

South Korean companies are doubling down on their bid to equip the Royal Canadian Navy with the new KSS-III attack submarines, intended to replace the

www.zona-militar.com

SK bid, 20-24B for the first 4 subs. That's s good deal

It's worded a bit awkwardly, but I believe it's 20-24B for all 12 boats. And 4 will be delivered by the 2035 deadline for IOC.

 

[Czech_pivo]

South Korea doubles down on its bid to equip the Royal Canadian Navy with its new KSS-III attack submarines

South Korean companies are doubling down on their bid to equip the Royal Canadian Navy with the new KSS-III attack submarines, intended to replace the

www.zona-militar.com

SK bid, 20-24B for the first 4 subs. That's s good deal

Putting crewing to the side for a moment, could anyone envision the number of subs moving up to 15 in any scenario?
That number would allow for 5 to be ready at any one time.

 

[Kirkhill]

Putting crewing to the side for a moment, could anyone envision the number of subs moving up to 15 in any scenario?
That number would allow for 5 to be ready at any one time.

And if we had 48 we could have 12 at sea at a time...

On the other hand - sensor arrays and UUVs, coupled with satellites, UAVs, MPAs, ships and submarines probably make for an interesting barrier.

Mines are static UUVs. Captors are mines that release UUVs.

You could take a Ghost Shark, fill it with torpedoes and park it on the bottom outside Resolute and effectively put a cork in the bottle.

 

[Underway]

It's worded a bit awkwardly, but I believe it's 20-24B for all 12 boats. And 4 will be delivered by the 2035 deadline for IOC.

Yah its a badly translated transcript. Other sources point to it either being 20billion for the first 4 subs or 20 billion in domestic investment over the course of the project. I'll have to dig a bit more to find out.

Putting crewing to the side for a moment, could anyone envision the number of subs moving up to 15 in any scenario?
That number would allow for 5 to be ready at any one time.

When we get to 12, a good program would start building 13 to retire the first of class. The scenario where I would see 15 is that when we get to 12 a general war breaks out somewhere and we just keep them building.

 

[OldSolduer]

However are we paid for what we do or are we paid for what we might have to do?

Like an insurance policy.

Yes you are not only paid for what you do but what you may have to do - which is put your ass on the line in the defense of Canada.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Yet another example of the much deepening relationship between South Korea and Poland.

Poland’s CPK teams up with South Korea for high-speed rail know-how

Poland’s Centralny Port Komunikacyjny (CPK) and Korea National Railway (KNR) have signed a new cooperation agreement to advance high-speed rail development in Poland. The deal focuses on sharing…

www.railtech.com

Poland’s CPK teams up with South Korea for high-speed rail know-how​

 

[Czech_pivo]

With the Germans/Norwegians being very very quiet in the public space over the last 3 months, what are peoples thoughts on this?
Are they quiet because privately they know that they've been informed on the QT that they've won the contract, maybe as the partly the price of admission to the ReArm Europe initiative? Or are they quiet because they know that they can't realistically met the timelines required by Canada to have 12 subs up and running by Day X, thus they have faded into the background, accepting that most likely their bid won't be accepted, thoughts? Comments?

 

[k.numbers]

With the Germans/Norwegians being very very quiet in the public space over the last 3 months, what are peoples thoughts on this?
Are they quiet because privately they know that they've been informed on the QT that they've won the contract, maybe as the partly the price of admission to the ReArm Europe initiative? Or are they quiet because they know that they can't realistically met the timelines required by Canada to have 12 subs up and running by Day X, thus they have faded into the background, accepting that most likely their bid won't be accepted, thoughts? Comments?

My hunch is the latter (speculation). I believe the Type 212 CD E variant would be the one that could meet the RCN's range and endurance requirements, rather than the 212 CD that Germany and Norway have ordered. From what I understand the project isn't keen on having the boats redesigned to meet Canadian requirements. It's supposed to be completely 'off the shelf'.

But who knows. Maybe they feel the changes from CD to CD E are so minimal that there isn't any technical risk there. The hull is just stretched a few meters to have larger fuel tanks and larger crew quarters. All the mechanical and tactical systems are the same.

 

[Underway]

They are being German about it. Not loud. There also hasn't been a release of RFP either. Just an RFI. A lot suspect that this will lead to a sole source bid, but it not then RFP will be released and the various companies can propose their solutions. Korea is just getting out front on this. It's also not like the Germans don't have a ton of work in their yards for submarines already.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

My hunch is the latter (speculation). I believe the Type 212 CD E variant would be the one that could meet the RCN's range and endurance requirements, rather than the 212 CD that Germany and Norway have ordered. From what I understand the project isn't keen on having the boats redesigned to meet Canadian requirements. It's supposed to be completely 'off the shelf'.

But who knows. Maybe they feel the changes from CD to CD E are so minimal that there isn't any technical risk there. The hull is just stretched a few meters to have larger fuel tanks and larger crew quarters. All the mechanical and tactical systems are the same.

Adding a "few meters" to a sub could have unintended consequences. or perhaps beneficial ones. But by and large sub designs are very twitchy about changes, to mass and weight.

 

[Kirkhill]

They are being German about it. Not loud. There also hasn't been a release of RFP either. Just an RFI. A lot suspect that this will lead to a sole source bid, but it not then RFP will be released and the various companies can propose their solutions. Korea is just getting out front on this. It's also not like the Germans don't have a ton of work in their yards for submarines already.

Just how European is our new Boss? We'll see.

 

[lenaitch]

Adding a "few meters" to a sub could have unintended consequences. or perhaps beneficial ones. But by and large sub designs are very twitchy about changes, to mass and weight.

The Swedish warship Vasa comes to mind. Sailed about 200yds after launch before sinking.

Vasa (ship) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org