GK .Dundas
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More recently there was the Spanish Sub that was overweight.The Swedish warship Vasa comes to mind. Sailed about 200yds after launch before sinking.
Vasa (ship) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Replacing the Subs
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Are the Germans/Norwegians there pitching their sub as well?
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Love this!
There is a video on Naval News regarding the same. They are working hard to get us a big submarine.
I think this is a unique opportunity for Canada to work with a partner to develop a truly Canadian style of sub. Now that Australia is out of the SSK game Canada is really the only country with long endurance SSK's as a requirement.
That VLS and Hyunmoo is interesting as well. I think that missile has potential, but probably needs some work to really meet Canadian strategic needs. Anti-ship version (or equivalent cruise missile) would make the SSK a true hunter killer.
There is a video on Naval News regarding the same. They are working hard to get us a big submarine.
I think this is a unique opportunity for Canada to work with a partner to develop a truly Canadian style of sub. Now that Australia is out of the SSK game Canada is really the only country with long endurance SSK's as a requirement.
That VLS and Hyunmoo is interesting as well. I think that missile has potential, but probably needs some work to really meet Canadian strategic needs. Anti-ship version (or equivalent cruise missile) would make the SSK a true hunter killer.
It wasn't clear to me they were pitching KSS-111 or the Future Submarine at CPSP.
Rainbow1910
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They are pitching KSS-III.
Yes, they're still pitching it. They've opened a new office in Ottawa, according to their press release - https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/thyssenkrupp-marine-systems-strengthens-its-commitment-in-canada-with-a-new-capital-city-representative-office-in-ottawa-808872850.html
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Why did they use the phase ‘Canadian Navy’ and not ‘Royal Canadian Navy’?
Oldgateboatdriver
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Well, sort of.
This is just announcing how many AUKUS subs they intend to acquire, staring in the late 30's. So lets be kind and say around 2037 for first in service and then one more every 18 months (again being very kind here). As they will be replacing the Astute's, this means the first "extra" boat from current levels will come in service in 2046 and the complete augmentation will be completed in 2055.
Not exactly something for the UK's enemies to worry about at this time.
This is just announcing how many AUKUS subs they intend to acquire, staring in the late 30's. So lets be kind and say around 2037 for first in service and then one more every 18 months (again being very kind here). As they will be replacing the Astute's, this means the first "extra" boat from current levels will come in service in 2046 and the complete augmentation will be completed in 2055.
Not exactly something for the UK's enemies to worry about at this time.
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Nice, comparable length of time for our Rivers, 20yrs basically from first to last. Ditto for our enemies as well.
Oldgateboatdriver
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If by "our enemies" you mean the Chinese, you may want to review those timelines.
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A plea from the Germans/Norwegians?
Their bandwidth and timelines really just don't line up with our stated needs.
The German Navy will receive its first 212CD in 2028 while Norway is expected to be in the water the following year.
Oliver Burkhard, the CEO of tkMS, said should Canada join the current program it's possible the first Canadian boat could arrive within its requested timeframe. Although, he said, much depends on the Canadian government and how swiftly it moves.
Slipping into the production line at this point would likely involve redesigning one of the submarines already earmarked for either Germany or Norway, Burkhard said.
"I think there are opportunities to debate if one of those is maybe the first Canadian one," he said.
The tkMS pitch also involves a plan to construct a submarine maintenance facility in Canada, creating jobs for Canadians — an important condition the Liberal government has repeatedly underlined.
On the OTHER hand;
..."the South Koreans went a step further and delivered a detailed bid, claiming they could deliver four boats to Canada by 2035 — the deadline set by the navy to receive its first new submarine."
Which of the 2 sets of statements above makes you feel that we'll have a boat(s) in the water, in use, ready to go by 2035?
German, Norwegian officials urge Canada to join 'familiar family' in buying new submarines
Their bandwidth and timelines really just don't line up with our stated needs.
The German Navy will receive its first 212CD in 2028 while Norway is expected to be in the water the following year.
Oliver Burkhard, the CEO of tkMS, said should Canada join the current program it's possible the first Canadian boat could arrive within its requested timeframe. Although, he said, much depends on the Canadian government and how swiftly it moves.
Slipping into the production line at this point would likely involve redesigning one of the submarines already earmarked for either Germany or Norway, Burkhard said.
"I think there are opportunities to debate if one of those is maybe the first Canadian one," he said.
The tkMS pitch also involves a plan to construct a submarine maintenance facility in Canada, creating jobs for Canadians — an important condition the Liberal government has repeatedly underlined.
On the OTHER hand;
..."the South Koreans went a step further and delivered a detailed bid, claiming they could deliver four boats to Canada by 2035 — the deadline set by the navy to receive its first new submarine."
Which of the 2 sets of statements above makes you feel that we'll have a boat(s) in the water, in use, ready to go by 2035?
GK .Dundas
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So according to the Germans, Canada already have a familiarity with their products ?
Well in last great unpleasantness we sank a lot of them . Somehow I don't think that's quite what they meant ....
Well in last great unpleasantness we sank a lot of them . Somehow I don't think that's quite what they meant ....
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Lol, Command position training for SSK's in NATO are generally done together in a NATO course. Not to mention cross pol's. So lots of RCN sub officers have sailed in German submarines. This is one of the advantages of German submarines, we'll be part of a NATO user group that we currently do close training with.
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I do question their abilty to build the subs for us and everyone else. I fear a sub being modified to suit our requirements will have bugs in it that we will have to deal with. Plus I think getting the SK weapon systems and possibly helping to produce them might actually put us in a better position longterm. Not to mention that we would be adding more VLS capability to our fleet. Whereas the German product might have a tube launched NSM missile in the not so distant future.
Now comes the question is it better to get the German DM2A4 torpedo or the SK K761 Tiger Shark torpedo? Likely the cost of individual torpedos and improvement cycle favours the German weapon, just because of the number of users.
Politically, SK will not limit us in how we use our subs and weapons. It's quite possible that Germany might.
South Korea’s Tiger Shark Torpedo to reach FOC by year-end - Naval News
According to South Korea's DAPA, the Tiger Shark torpedo produced by LIG Nex1 for the ROK Navy will become fully operational by the end of this year.
www.navalnews.com
DM2A4 - Wikipedia
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Add in the fact that Poland may very well chose the SK subs as well. And I 100% believe that Germany will put some restrictions on the subs.I do question their abilty to build the subs for us and everyone else. I fear a sub being modified to suit our requirements will have bugs in it that we will have to deal with. Plus I think getting the SK weapon systems and possibly helping to produce them might actually put us in a better position longterm. Not to mention that we would be adding more VLS capability to our fleet. Whereas the German product might have a tube launched NSM missile in the not so distant future.
Now comes the question is it better to get the German DM2A4 torpedo or the SK K761 Tiger Shark torpedo? Likely the cost of individual torpedos and improvement cycle favours the German weapon, just because of the number of users.
Politically, SK will not limit us in how we use our subs and weapons. It's quite possible that Germany might.
South Korea’s Tiger Shark Torpedo to reach FOC by year-end - Naval News
According to South Korea's DAPA, the Tiger Shark torpedo produced by LIG Nex1 for the ROK Navy will become fully operational by the end of this year.
DM2A4 - Wikipedia
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Democracies change like the seasons, if by chance the Green came back into power 15 years from now, they could decide to say no and tell you they won't honour MOU from previous governments. They certainly played games with the Ukrainians for quite awhile.
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