Will 2021 see a new pistol buy?

[daftandbarmy]

It's a thumb break. It unsnaps when my thumb hits it and the gun is free to draw.

 

[markppcli]

agreed, and drills have already been modified slightly because of safety concerns of people not fully holstering their pistols. Right now hot holstering isnt allowed until you pass PWT3A, Really its a check in the box more than anything.

Now for this incident, without knowing the model of holster or which version of the 320, its hard to say 100% what happened here, did the bag catch on the holster causing the discharge? was it an older model 320 that doesn't have the double bent sear (safety feature added after the drop fire incidents). I hope the investigation eventually gets released publically as i'd be curious how this plays out.

Honestly this is the CAF overreacting to the pistol, and part of the frankly very poor roll out of training. The PWT is a test of marksmanship, and shouldn’t be tied to how you can operate a weapon. Especially when it’s holstering a readied pistol in the manner it is expressly designed to be used. I worked at Brink’s and frankly if you can have the people that work there (either retired army or the too dumb to be a cop crowd) to safely a readied striker fired pistol in a couple days I see no reason the CAF can’t.

I am admittedly holding a grudge in this based on how the train the trainer was handled. That could just be my experience.

 

[MilEME09]

Honestly this is the CAF overreacting to the pistol, and part of the frankly very poor roll out of training. The PWT is a test of marksmanship, and shouldn’t be tied to how you can operate a weapon. Especially when it’s holstering a readied pistol in the manner it is expressly designed to be used. I worked at Brink’s and frankly if you can have the people that work there (either retired army or the too dumb to be a cop crowd) to safely a readied striker fired pistol in a couple days I see no reason the CAF can’t.

I am admittedly holding a grudge in this based on how the train the trainer was handled. That could just be my experience.

Gotta remember as well we went from a pistol designed in 1914 to a pistol designed in 2014. We basically took away a rock from a cave man and gave him an AK by comparison. Its such a rapid leap in design, application, safety and handling, we naturally will have problems adapting.

 

[markppcli]

Gotta remember as well we went from a pistol designed in 1914 to a pistol designed in 2014. We basically took away a rock from a cave man and gave him an AK by comparison. Its such a rapid leap in design, application, safety and handling, we naturally will have problems adapting.

Ehhhhh it’s not as though we don’t have portions of the CAF who were using modern pistols more frequently, and carrying them readied and holstered. Or the opportunity to observer our allies / civilian police force who use pistols without an external safety all the time. Frankly we just decided to find a complicated way to transfer risk in training to risk on operations.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Pistol training in the 1970-80's was crap. I tell people that I can shoot pistol despite my army training. But really there is very little new in gun design except for materials. The Luger P08 was striker fired and could still kill you where disassembled as one Luger owner in the US found out the hard way.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Ehhhhh it’s not as though we don’t have portions of the CAF who were using modern pistols more frequently, and carrying them readied and holstered. Or the opportunity to observer our allies / civilian police force who use pistols without an external safety all the time. Frankly we just decided to find a complicated way to transfer risk in training to risk on operations.

A Browning Hi Power, with one up the spout, shoved down the front of your pants at night always made you feel better when you know that external safety just clicked 'on'.

And I just re-read that and realized there are far too many racy metaphors for a person my age to recognize

 

[brihard]

A Browning Hi Power, with one up the spout, shoved down the front of your pants at night always made you feel better when you know that external safety just clicked 'on'.

And I just re-read that and realized there are far too many racy metaphors for a person my age to recognize

And that external safety is still a couple fewer mechanical safety mechanisms than a modern double action pistol.

A modern, properly designed pistol will not fire absent a booger hook on the bang switch.

A good pistol in a good holster is properly and safely sheathed and should cause the operator no trepidation to carry it with one in the spout.

 

[Eaglelord17]

View attachment 94495

There was a video I watched of a police officer in the States with a .45 who shot a methed up criminal 3 or 4 times but didn’t go down. It then turned into a benny hill type deal where he had to run to his vehicle to get his rifle well being chased by this criminal.

His lesson from this was he switched to a 9mm Glock with a flush 17 or 19 mag (whatever style it was) and two 33rd spare mags in his pocket. Capacity is a virtue of its own.

 

[dapaterson]

I am admittedly holding a grudge in this based on how the train the trainer was handled. That could just be my experience.

About thirty five years ago, I got the conversion course, FN to C7, in the back of a ML in the rain from Karl.

"You do dis, you do dat, and you're done. Question? Go shoot."

 

[FSTO]

I’m sure this has been pointed out before but OP Apollo is when we in the Navy received the Sig Saur. A Quarter Century ago! WTF Army?

 

[KevinB]

Gotta remember as well we went from a pistol designed in 1914 to a pistol designed in 2014. We basically took away a rock from a cave man and gave him an AK by comparison. Its such a rapid leap in design, application, safety and handling, we naturally will have problems adapting.

1935, not 1914

But if one was doing competent training on the Inglis No2 Mk1*, it wouldn’t have been a jump at all to a new pistol.

Most people in the CAF are flat out incompetent with weapons handling, that a pistol with the short barrel is extremely frightening to them, so very little training gets done.

Pretty much every LE academy has folks shooting from a holster within day 1 or 2 of the pistol training. It should be an ingrained part of the training.

 

[Good2Golf]

I’m sure this has been pointed out before but OP Apollo is when we in the Navy received the Sig Saur. A Quarter Century ago! WTF Army?

They even gave fighter pilots Sigs, and none of them shot themselves.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

They even gave fighter pilots Sigs, and none of them shot themselves.

Yet.

 

[Good2Golf]

Yet.

True…but they’ve had about as much time to do It as FSTO’s colleagues, and still haven’t got ‘er done yet…

 

[Rifleman62]

Anyway, you're stuck with it for the next 100 years.

 

[Good2Golf]

Anyway, you're stuck with it for the next 100 years.

Well…mathematically, at least 90…

 

[FSTO]

They even gave fighter pilots Sigs, and none of them shot themselves.

If a group of MARS officers can walk about the Bridge at night, turning the pistol and holster over to their relief and not shoot themselves or the bosun mate then something must have been done right.

 

[MilEME09]

1935, not 1914

1935 is the year is started production, John Browning starting designing it in 1914, he died so the design wasn't finished until the mid 1920s.

Edit: The rest of your statement I agree with, be it pistol or rifle, we don't train as much as we should be, hopefully the new budget increases leads to more range time for all platforms.

 

[dapaterson]

If a group of MARS officers can walk about the Bridge at night, turning the pistol and holster over to their relief and not shoot themselves or the bosun mate then something must have been done right.

Not giving them ammo?

 

[Eaglelord17]

Gotta remember as well we went from a pistol designed in 1914 to a pistol designed in 2014. We basically took away a rock from a cave man and gave him an AK by comparison. Its such a rapid leap in design, application, safety and handling, we naturally will have problems adapting.

They aren’t that different. This is more like going from a 90s car to a 2020s car. Controls are basically the same, the vehicle is a bit more efficient, but overall they both still get from point A to point B.

Handgun technology really hasn’t advanced that much since the hi-power came out. It is why it lasted so long. Most modern designs are all basically variants of the browning tilting barrel design just with tweaks on the design with different materials being used.

Doctrine on using pistols has changed a fair bit though and I suspect thats being reflected in the new drills.