Guns or Drones or Both?

[Kirkhill]

Does this suggest more tactical usage of the Shaheds? Pre-fragmented HE with airburst fuses, and thermobaric warheads?

Russians Start Equipping Shahed Drones with Air-Burst Warheads - Militarnyi

The Russians have started mounting a new fragmentation–high‑explosive warhead with an air‑burst capability on Shahed (Geran) kamikaze drones

militarnyi.com

It could just be to spread more terror deeper into the civilian areas. But could it also be meant to be used over the trenches to make up for reductions in guns and tanks?

 

[Kirkhill]

This one is for @Kirkhill

UH-60 Black Hawk Cargo Drone With Clamshell Nose Breaks Cover

The new U-Hawk could act as a launch platform for dozens of smaller drones or loitering munitions, or lug thousands of pounds of cargo.

www.twz.com

Further to... new TWZ article with video from the tradeshow and the blurb.

10,000 lb payload total.
Up to 7,000 lb internal
Up to 8,000 lb on the hook
Can carry a loaded HIMARS pod internally with the doors closed.

UH-60 U-Hawk Drone Walk-Around Tour

We get up close with Sikorsky's new U-Hawk uncrewed Black Hawk that traded its cockpit for clamshell doors.

www.twz.com

 

[HavokFour]

Cheap ($20-50k) is defeated by even cheaper ($2500). The visual comparison is really something, even a version to counter jet powered Shahed's now.

https://bsky.app/profile/specialkhersoncat.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3m35zv35l2s24

Article from August 2025.

A $2,500 interceptor drone built to destroy Iranian Shaheds was recorded flying at the speed of a bullet train

The Ukrainian drone startup Wild Hornets released a video on Monday of its Sting interceptor reaching up to 195 miles per hour in stable flight.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Cheap ($20-50k) is defeated by even cheaper ($2500). The visual comparison is really something, even a version to counter jet powered Shahed's now.

https://bsky.app/profile/specialkhersoncat.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3m35zv35l2s24

Article from August 2025.

A $2,500 interceptor drone built to destroy Iranian Shaheds was recorded flying at the speed of a bullet train

The Ukrainian drone startup Wild Hornets released a video on Monday of its Sting interceptor reaching up to 195 miles per hour in stable flight.

www.businessinsider.com

The sound on that video.

The Germans had to put sirens on their Stukas to achieve that effect.

 

[HavokFour]

Remember how Russians were parking fiber optic drones and waiting for stuff to drive by?

A Ukrainian startup is turning to AI to outsmart the Russian ambush drones blowing up supply trucks

Ukrainian firm Dropla originally made an AI algorithm that lets drones scout for Russian landmines, but is expanding it to detect quadcopters too.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Kirkhill]

And the US Army is looking at CCA drones.

U.S. Army Opens Search For Collaborative Combat Aircraft | Aviation Week Network

Collaborative Combat Aircraft may soon be coming to the U.S. Army’s acquisition plans.

aviationweek.com

Is a RATO launched CCA an air force aircraft or an army missile?

 

[PPCLI Guy]

This one is for @Kirkhill

UH-60 Black Hawk Cargo Drone With Clamshell Nose Breaks Cover

The new U-Hawk could act as a launch platform for dozens of smaller drones or loitering munitions, or lug thousands of pounds of cargo.

www.twz.com

Saw that in person this week. Very impressive!

 

[PPCLI Guy]

CAF (and CCA specifically) is very interested in a Canadian product being shipped to Ukr and SOCOM:

 

[HavokFour]

I think this checks both boxes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1og27hx/ukrainian_ground_drones_armed_with_127mm_machine

Not familiar with this specific UGV design but I do see that each has it's own Starlink dish. I wonder what the max carry load, battery idle life, and cost are.

 

[GR66]

I think this checks both boxes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1og27hx/ukrainian_ground_drones_armed_with_127mm_machine

Not familiar with this specific UGV design but I do see that each has it's own Starlink dish. I wonder what the max carry load, battery idle life, and cost are.

I can definitely see the utility of these UGV's but I'm wondering exactly how they will be managed. They move at the speed of dismounted troops but how are they moving to the front with the infantry? Trailers? In the back of light mobility vehicles/APCs? They seem to fit well on a static front type situation but how do you use them if you're able to engage in maneuver?

 

[Retired AF Guy]

I think this checks both boxes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1og27hx/ukrainian_ground_drones_armed_with_127mm_machine

Not familiar with this specific UGV design but I do see that each has it's own Starlink dish. I wonder what the max carry load, battery idle life, and cost are.

Skynet's predecessor.

 

[Kirkhill]

I can definitely see the utility of these UGV's but I'm wondering exactly how they will be managed. They move at the speed of dismounted troops but how are they moving to the front with the infantry? Trailers? In the back of light mobility vehicles/APCs? They seem to fit well on a static front type situation but how do you use them if you're able to engage in maneuver?

Are you manoeuvering at the pace of Goose Green? Or 73 Easting?

And as for bringing them along with the infantry

How many could fit on a beavertail hauled by a Senator.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I think this checks both boxes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1og27hx/ukrainian_ground_drones_armed_with_127mm_machine

Not familiar with this specific UGV design but I do see that each has it's own Starlink dish. I wonder what the max carry load, battery idle life, and cost are.

Kirkhill quietly slips off to the bathroom with a box of Kleenex

 

[GR66]

Russia has developed a UGV that launches UAVs to take out enemy UAVs.

Russia unveils robotic air defense system

Russian defense firm Gumich RTK has introduced its new robotic air defense system, the Impulse-PVO, at the Interpolitex 2025 international exhibition in Moscow. The system, designed to engage low-flying reconnaissance drones using kinetic interceptors, is presented as a mobile, unmanned

defence-blog.com

Combined with the MG-toting UGV posted above we're seeing more and more of the actual trigger pulling of weapons being de-coupled from the weapon itself.

Is the eventual end state one side's UXV's defeating the other side's UXV's in a proxy of traditional human-vs-human combat? Does the role of infantry eventually change from "taking and holding ground" to "holding and occupying ground taken by robotic weapon systems"?

 

[Kirkhill]

Kirkhill quietly slips off to the bathroom with a box of Kleenex

Further to....

Ukraine isn’t just hurling attack drones; they’re waging real robot warfare

A new RUSI report describes the broad use of air and ground robotic systems—and what they mean for NATO.

www.defenseone.com

In terms of equipment and vehicles, the paper shows that drone warfare exposes vulnerabilities that designers may not have considered. For instance, if your fancy new combat vehicle has rubber tires it might as well be a hockey goalie with no helmet. What’s most important: buy equipment that’s modular, so that broken parts can be quickly swapped out.

But NATO leaders don’t feel the same urgency to change, one of the participants in the GLOBSEC dialogue said. Limited resources and invading forces galvanized Ukrainian innovation, but alliance members have larger budgets, relatively sophisticated equipment, and no Russian forces on their territory. For example, Ukraine has created a command-and-control architecture that coordinates humans and robots, even under constant electronic warfare attack.

“We don't” have that, the participant said, meaning NATO. “It has a lot to do with our policies, the way we approach sharing [intelligence] and and our dependency on fixed command control systems provided by big, big suppliers.”

“What I see is that the steering in most European headquarters is still done based on investment budgets,” the participant said. “We just go on buying big stuff. It just continues. and I think that's really the worse part.”

....

WRT the rubber tyres

X® TWEEL™: airless tires for UTVs and ATVs | MICHELIN USA

Discover the Michelin X® TWEEL™ for UTVs and ATVs, non pneumatic tires with a 4-in-1 benefits: puncture proof, stable, maintenance-free and durable!

business.michelinman.com

 

[FJAG]

In terms of equipment and vehicles, the paper shows that drone warfare exposes vulnerabilities that designers may not have considered. For instance, if your fancy new combat vehicle has rubber tires it might as well be a hockey goalie with no helmet. What’s most important: buy equipment that’s modular, so that broken parts can be quickly swapped out.

I think Watling's caution isn't so much about rubber tires (i.e. wheeled vehicles) as opposed to rubber "tracks" which I suspect he considers a maintenance/repair weakness over linked tracks.

WRT the rubber tyres

View attachment 96549

X® TWEEL™: airless tires for UTVs and ATVs | MICHELIN USA

Discover the Michelin X® TWEEL™ for UTVs and ATVs, non pneumatic tires with a 4-in-1 benefits: puncture proof, stable, maintenance-free and durable!

business.michelinman.com

I do agree with you however. My past reading about WW2 talked about great loss rate in tires as a result of rubble and mostly artillery splinters. We have much netter, run-flat tires these days but still - damaged is damaged. Steel tracks and the solid tires do much better.