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Seems like they are making it seem like the industrial component is already set.
Canada probably wont like that, Germany wouldn't tolerate it.
If true, Airbus SAAB collaboration sounds a lot more likely.
The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
- Thread starter WingsofFury
- Start date
Canada probably wont like that, Germany wouldn't tolerate it.
If true, Airbus SAAB collaboration sounds a lot more likely.
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Well, well, well.....I do believe that they are now setting the table before the meal is to be served.
www.ctvnews.ca
U.S. Ambassador to Canada Pete Hoekstra says when it comes to Canada’s ongoing F-35 fighter jet review, a potential mixed fleet will not put Norad in jeopardy.
“One decision will not kill Norad,” Hoekstra said in an exclusive broadcast interview with CTV News chief political correspondent Vassy Kapelos.
Multiple industry sources have told CTV News that the federal government is considering a mixed fleet of fighter jets that could total more than its initial target of 88 aircraft.
Hoekstra’s latest remarks are a change to previous comments he made to CTV News more than a year ago.
Speaking to Kapelos last May, Hoekstra signalled Norad – the defence alliance between Canada and the U.S. – could be in jeopardy if Canada reneges on its plan to purchase F-35 fighter jets.
“If Canadians are flying one airplane, we’re flying another airplane, it’s no longer interchangeable,” Hoekstra said at the time. “And so, that might even threaten Norad without talking about new alliances that promise even more security and safety to our people.”
But in his latest interview with CTV News, when asked if the alliance is in jeopardy if Canada were to move forward with a mixed fleet, Hoekstra emphasized that the U.S. will “look at a whole series of decisions.”
“If you buy fighters that don’t integrate with the latest technology and the best airplane in the world, they don’t really count as full airplanes,” Hoekstra told Kapelos. “They’re capable and all that, but if they don’t link to an F-35, that’s a problem.”
In an exclusive interview with CTV Question Period also airing Sunday, Canada’s Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jennie Carignan said the military has made its fighter jet needs clear to the federal government.
“From my perspective, we described what capability we need,” Carignan told Kapelos. “We have made those options very clear as to what was required, and now the government will make the best possible decision with that.”
Asked by Kapelos if the military could staff more than 88 fighter jets, Carignan said she is “not worried.”
“The plan is being crafted and implemented according to the sequence that fighter jets will be coming in,” Carignan said.
“We’re not going to get 88 in one shot. They will be coming in progressively, and we are currently at work in identifying the right personnel,” she added.
EXCLUSIVE: ‘One decision will not kill Norad,’ U.S. ambassador says of Canada’s possible mixed fighter jet fleet
U.S. Ambassador to Canada Pete Hoekstra says when it comes to Canada’s ongoing F-35 fighter jet review, a potential mixed fleet will not put Norad in jeopardy.
www.ctvnews.ca
EXCLUSIVE: ‘One decision will not kill Norad,’ U.S. ambassador says of Canada’s possible mixed fighter jet fleet
U.S. Ambassador to Canada Pete Hoekstra says when it comes to Canada’s ongoing F-35 fighter jet review, a potential mixed fleet will not put Norad in jeopardy.
“One decision will not kill Norad,” Hoekstra said in an exclusive broadcast interview with CTV News chief political correspondent Vassy Kapelos.
Multiple industry sources have told CTV News that the federal government is considering a mixed fleet of fighter jets that could total more than its initial target of 88 aircraft.
Hoekstra’s latest remarks are a change to previous comments he made to CTV News more than a year ago.
Speaking to Kapelos last May, Hoekstra signalled Norad – the defence alliance between Canada and the U.S. – could be in jeopardy if Canada reneges on its plan to purchase F-35 fighter jets.
“If Canadians are flying one airplane, we’re flying another airplane, it’s no longer interchangeable,” Hoekstra said at the time. “And so, that might even threaten Norad without talking about new alliances that promise even more security and safety to our people.”
But in his latest interview with CTV News, when asked if the alliance is in jeopardy if Canada were to move forward with a mixed fleet, Hoekstra emphasized that the U.S. will “look at a whole series of decisions.”
“If you buy fighters that don’t integrate with the latest technology and the best airplane in the world, they don’t really count as full airplanes,” Hoekstra told Kapelos. “They’re capable and all that, but if they don’t link to an F-35, that’s a problem.”
In an exclusive interview with CTV Question Period also airing Sunday, Canada’s Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jennie Carignan said the military has made its fighter jet needs clear to the federal government.
“From my perspective, we described what capability we need,” Carignan told Kapelos. “We have made those options very clear as to what was required, and now the government will make the best possible decision with that.”
Asked by Kapelos if the military could staff more than 88 fighter jets, Carignan said she is “not worried.”
“The plan is being crafted and implemented according to the sequence that fighter jets will be coming in,” Carignan said.
“We’re not going to get 88 in one shot. They will be coming in progressively, and we are currently at work in identifying the right personnel,” she added.
- Reaction score
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To be fair Hoekstra didn't really change the US's position with the two statements:Well, well, well.....I do believe that they are now setting the table before the meal is to be served.
EXCLUSIVE: ‘One decision will not kill Norad,’ U.S. ambassador says of Canada’s possible mixed fighter jet fleet
U.S. Ambassador to Canada Pete Hoekstra says when it comes to Canada’s ongoing F-35 fighter jet review, a potential mixed fleet will not put Norad in jeopardy.
EXCLUSIVE: ‘One decision will not kill Norad,’ U.S. ambassador says of Canada’s possible mixed fighter jet fleet
U.S. Ambassador to Canada Pete Hoekstra says when it comes to Canada’s ongoing F-35 fighter jet review, a potential mixed fleet will not put Norad in jeopardy.
“One decision will not kill Norad,” Hoekstra said in an exclusive broadcast interview with CTV News chief political correspondent Vassy Kapelos.
Multiple industry sources have told CTV News that the federal government is considering a mixed fleet of fighter jets that could total more than its initial target of 88 aircraft.
Hoekstra’s latest remarks are a change to previous comments he made to CTV News more than a year ago.
Speaking to Kapelos last May, Hoekstra signalled Norad – the defence alliance between Canada and the U.S. – could be in jeopardy if Canada reneges on its plan to purchase F-35 fighter jets.
“If Canadians are flying one airplane, we’re flying another airplane, it’s no longer interchangeable,” Hoekstra said at the time. “And so, that might even threaten Norad without talking about new alliances that promise even more security and safety to our people.”
But in his latest interview with CTV News, when asked if the alliance is in jeopardy if Canada were to move forward with a mixed fleet, Hoekstra emphasized that the U.S. will “look at a whole series of decisions.”
“If you buy fighters that don’t integrate with the latest technology and the best airplane in the world, they don’t really count as full airplanes,” Hoekstra told Kapelos. “They’re capable and all that, but if they don’t link to an F-35, that’s a problem.”
In an exclusive interview with CTV Question Period also airing Sunday, Canada’s Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jennie Carignan said the military has made its fighter jet needs clear to the federal government.
“From my perspective, we described what capability we need,” Carignan told Kapelos. “We have made those options very clear as to what was required, and now the government will make the best possible decision with that.”
Asked by Kapelos if the military could staff more than 88 fighter jets, Carignan said she is “not worried.”
“The plan is being crafted and implemented according to the sequence that fighter jets will be coming in,” Carignan said.
“We’re not going to get 88 in one shot. They will be coming in progressively, and we are currently at work in identifying the right personnel,” she added.
This would be the case if Canada went with the Gripen INSTEAD of the F-35
His latest comment was in the context of Canada having a MIXED fleet. So, he still expresses concern with the non-F-35 portion being of concern in terms of full interoperability (no change in position) but with a mixed fleet the F-35 portion would still be fully interoperable.
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We all know it's more politics than anything else with this (and all) administrations.
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The F35 doesn’t even talk directly to the F-22 Raptor…it needs U-2s or Bombardier Global Express E-11 BACN Battlefield Airborne Command Node aircraft (yup same aircraft as SAAB GlobalEye) to translate between the F-35’s MADL datalink and the F-22’s IFDL In Flight Data Link system.
Not with the F-35.
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Ukraine and Sweden Sign Deal for Gripen-E Fighters | TURDEF
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy announced that a deal was signed with Sweden for 16 Gripen-E fighters as a part of the air force modernisation.
turdef.com
First order of Gripen E for Ukraine.
Clearing the hurdle of "Ukraine hasnt ordered any Gripens"
So with Ukraine starting to order them maybe getting in on the 150 order is a consideration
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Set up a line to assemble CAN and UKR airframes. Share training as UKR support. Give the RCAF the bifurcated fleet they don't want.
If we land somewhere around 60/60 we're ahead of 88 (though it will require significant investment in the RCAF to grow pilot and maintenance crew training capacity).
If we land somewhere around 60/60 we're ahead of 88 (though it will require significant investment in the RCAF to grow pilot and maintenance crew training capacity).
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Sounds entirely reasonable to me
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5th Generation Comms | Air & Space Forces Magazine
The Air Force is working to improve communications between the two aircraft and its larger networks
www.airandspaceforces.com
They can - just need to bolt on the pod
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Older article - but it gets the point across.5th Generation Comms | Air & Space Forces Magazine
The Air Force is working to improve communications between the two aircraft and its larger networks
They can - just need to bolt on the pod
Awesome, voice via the “not-so-stealthy” pod.
Heck, we should maybe augment our RQ-9Bs with RQ-4s to help future F-35s to talk with NORAD F-22s. 
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Hey, how is that MADL thing going on F22s, anyway?
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They can do voice easy.Awesome, voice via the “not-so-stealthy” pod.
Data is the issue.
The F-35 can ‘listen, hear and see’ everything. But the F-16 (F-15, 18) need the pod (not the F-35) to be able to receive MADL transmissions from the F-35 and understand them.
B-2 and B-21 can ‘talk’ to the F-35 just fine as those have MaDL.
Quite honestly one just need to bolt the Talon Hate pod to a non MADL equipped aircraft and ensure the software is compatible.
I am not a Gripen fan, but I don’t see this as an actual issue. Especially for NORAD, the non stealth aircraft are going to be radar visible anyway - so them getting non MADL or IFDL data isn’t exactly blowing their cover. The only issue would be IF the USG allows Talon Hate integration on the Gripen, and if it did, I suspect that would be done under some heavy TAA’s and locked out from any non RCAF Gripen
Congress mandated that it be restarted.
Allegedly the recent refresh airframes are supposed to have it — but I can’t see anything OS to confirm that. Nor anything recent OS on any conversion work at all.
There was an article on internal installation of the TH8 pod in the F-22, (I guess as a fast quick and dirty option) a few years back - but I can’t find it anymore — which leads me to believe it either didn’t work (either reception issues when internal, took up too much space) or….
For the TL;DR crowd (@Good2Golf and @PuckChaser please correct me if I screw this up - it’s from an 18E crib notes on data for dummies -I am the dummy with the understanding that he wasn’t hitting all the notes either )
MADL and IFDL are basically directional low probability intercept data relay.
Link-16 is a standard but isn’t LPI so generating the signal is visible to anyone on the EM spectrum.
F-35 receives from everyone. Can talk to anyone via voice. Data as long as they speak MADL.
F-22 receives voice from everyone, data from everyone but F-35, F-47, B-2 and B-21.
F-15, F16, F-18, A-10, voice and data amongst themselves, needs Talon Hate pod installed to use data transfer with MADL and IFDL aircraft.
Also not jumping into ground to air and vice versa data.
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My point was: the US Administration is sucking and blowing on NORAD integration, when half the USAF fighters can’t fully talk to the other half.
There are legitimate objections to Grippens in Canadian service. NORAD integration is not one of them.
There are legitimate objections to Grippens in Canadian service. NORAD integration is not one of them.
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KevinB, yeah you got it right, both MADL and IFDL are LPI/LPD (detection) datalinks using high-gain, very low noise, electronically steerable active-array antennas and Link 16/TADIL J/MIDS is CC:world broad ‘who’s out there, here’s what we’re all doing, type ‘link’…it’s more akin to a party line back in the old telephone in rural areas days vice the directed point-to-point(s) topology of IFDL and MADL. While I semi-jested about carrying a less-than-stealthy ‘babblefish’ pod of a Gen 4.5 platform, that does reinforce the point that puts a hole in the logic of anyone who argues that NORAD absolutely must have the F-35 from Canada or NORAD isn’t any use anymore and America should go it alone is just silly (as a past USAF GEN CDR NORAD recently pointed out).
Again, I’m by no means a *fan of the Gripen as a fighter in the RCAF, I’d much rather see a Rafale M in a mixed fleet than Gripen, but I do appreciate the place that a Gripe (and GlobalEye) has in Canada’s participation with and collaborative support of Europe’s defence industrial manufacturing capacity, which directly supports what POTUS is telling Europnit needs to do…take its own defence seriously.
Again, I’m by no means a *fan of the Gripen as a fighter in the RCAF, I’d much rather see a Rafale M in a mixed fleet than Gripen, but I do appreciate the place that a Gripe (and GlobalEye) has in Canada’s participation with and collaborative support of Europe’s defence industrial manufacturing capacity, which directly supports what POTUS is telling Europnit needs to do…take its own defence seriously.
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Understanding during some of the most recent air operations the US was using Communication relay planes to communicate from F35s to other aircraft aka bomb trucks. No different then what C&C aircraft are designed to do.
There was never a plan for the F35 to communicate with every aircraft, there was a plan for the F35 to be able to CC aircraft in the battle space.
There was never a plan for the F35 to communicate with every aircraft, there was a plan for the F35 to be able to CC aircraft in the battle space.
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Fixture
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You mentioned that before G2G, but I am curious: any reason why you want the naval version of the Rafale instead of the "standard" French Air Force version of it?
