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09/10 Budget Impact on PRes - Unit stand-downs, Class B Freeze, and so on!

Iggle Piggle said:
Why don't the Class B people that are getting their walking papers all just do a CT?  Ottawa Citizen says that any budget cuts to CF will not effect Reg F.

There is a myriad of reasons why they don't CT. It's been discussed a number of times on the board. A search should give you plenty of reading, without sidetracking this thread and starting the Cl B\CT theme all over again here.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
recceguy said:
There is a myriad of reasons why they don't CT. It's been discussed a number of times on the board.

I guess some reservists (incld myself) like the sheer thrill of being given 30 days notice....or off/on employment.... I wonder if LFCA can buy a LottoMax ticket.
20 million could pay a dozen PRes units for a year  ;D
 
Iggle Piggle said:
No. Combat arms are closed to civilian applicants. No trades are closed to CT's.  Some trades (Artillery for one) are even offering Incntives for qualified PRes pers to make the switch.
We had a few CTs from Res Infantry to  Reg nfantry in my unit that got placed on hold.

The problems with class B contracts cut and class A work uncertitnay HAS caused an exodus of reservists to CT to the regular force.  Problem now is the reserves are loosing all their good guys.

reserves fell on their sword over this budget stuff and I'm not sure if they will be able to pick themselves up again anytime soon.

Kevin_M said:
Oh I wouldn't doubt it. I hope not though since this is my only job. 20-25 class A days a month is the greatest job I've ever had.;)

But hey, budget cuts or no budget cuts we got the new crimpers finally. Double crimp. Chimo. :p  ::) Now if only we got to use them more then once a year.

If you're working that much you should be placed on a class B contract.  You're missing out on a lot of benifits.

 
Right Flawed. Kevin if you are working that much then you should be on Class B service.

From the CMP - Adminstrative Policy

Cl "A" Reserve Service as defined in QR&O 9.06 shall be used for short periods of service to a maximum of 12 consecutive days. Reserve Force members shall not be placed on consecutive periods of Cl "A" Reserve Service in order to avoid the requirement to place the reservist on a period of Cl "B" Reserve Service. For example, a Reserve Force member serving on consecutive five-day periods of Cl "A" Reserve Service with a one or two day break between periods over extended periods.



 
Ugh, the reserves stand down upsets me so much especially since I just got into the reserves. I'd transfer to the Regulars but I don't want to be a jack *** to the unit that allowed me in and it would probably be an administrative nightmare.
 
You're not being disloyal.  You have to look out for YOU.
If you want a career in the military go reg force.
I've helped over a half dozen members of my platoon fill out paperwork and memos to CT to the regular force.  When someone comes to me and asks about long term employment in the reserves I tell them there isn't any and to join the regular force, go school full time OR get a civilian job. Our CO tells people the same thing.

The job of the reserves is to use what they have, not try and co hearse people into staying.

The CF decided to sweep the legs out from under the reserves so they will just simply have to accept the repercussions.

Although I'd probably have a few things to say to your unit for allowing you in in the first place  ;)
 
Dean22 said:
Ugh, the reserves stand down upsets me so much especially since I just got into the reserves. I'd transfer to the Regulars but I don't want to be a jack *** to the unit that allowed me in and it would probably be an administrative nightmare.

I agree with Flawed Design... look out for you... CTs have been easier now more than ever.... If you need the money/a full time job go regs
 
Just had a course I was told I was teaching cancelled on me. Three weeks notice isn't the worst I've had, but I'd been optimistic that it wouldn't be so bad out west. Meh.

Makes planning my work schedule easier. Goodbye class A days, hello flexibility.
 
Jingo said:
I agree with Flawed Design... look out for you... CTs have been easier now more than ever.... If you need the money/a full time job go regs

While that works for some (my CT took 3 months start to finish), I have a friend waiting for a transfer into a red trade as a Cpl and has been waiting over 6 months, and now its block leave. She's lucky she can get some Cl A here and there, and that EI tops up the rest, otherwise she'd be out in the streets waiting for Ottawa to finish her transfer.
 
NO ONE ever promised your Reserve job would be a fulltime one. NO ONE ever promised the Reserve would pay you full time. Sorry if you thought that way, and now you don't have a job. There is only ONE person to thank for your predicament.

Sorry, but it's time to move on.
 
recceguy said:
NO ONE ever promised your Reserve job would be a fulltime one. NO ONE ever promised the Reserve would pay you full time. Sorry if you thought that way, and now you don't have a job. There is only ONE person to thank for your predicament.

Sorry, but it's time to move on.

Who are you talking to?

I don't see your post pertaining to anyone in this thread. No one is complaining about job time, full time or anything else other than lack of training until late next year.

You just started yelling at the corner in the room and now everyone is staring at you.
 
Dean22 said:
Who are you talking to?

I don't see your post pertaining to anyone in this thread. No one is complaining about job time, full time or anything else other than lack of training until late next year.

You just started yelling at the corner in the room and now everyone is staring at you.

You're the one people are staring at after that. Now wind your neck in or go into the system, again.

PuckChaser said:
While that works for some (my CT took 3 months start to finish), I have a friend waiting for a transfer into a red trade as a Cpl and has been waiting over 6 months, and now its block leave. She's lucky she can get some Cl A here and there, and that EI tops up the rest, otherwise she'd be out in the streets waiting for Ottawa to finish her transfer.

Read the last sentence of the above. I got the same gyst that recceguy did. If that is not what the OP meant they'll come back and clarify. I am sure they don't need you crusading for them. Now if you're done...

Scott
Army.ca Staff
 
Dean22 said:
Who are you talking to?

I don't see your post pertaining to anyone in this thread. No one is complaining about job time, full time or anything else other than lack of training until late next year.

You just started yelling at the corner in the room and now everyone is staring at you.

I could try explain it to you, but given your history here, it'd be a waste of time. :boring:
 
Scott said:
Read the last sentence of the above. I got the same gyst that recceguy did. If that is not what the OP meant they'll come back and clarify. I am sure they don't need you crusading for them. Now if you're done...

Scott
Army.ca Staff

Maybe you'd care to explain in PM, since I have no idea what my post and Dean22's had in common.
 
Sadly one of the biggest sales pitches in the reserves is aimed at full time students. We offer 4 Thursday nights a month, sometimes 1 to 4 Tuesday nights a month if your regiment does admin nights. 
Weekends and other odd class A taskings soliders(students) can pick up here and there.  In exchange the same student-soldiers go away during the summer and contribute back to the CF, say by instructing on various courses.

The money reservists get isn't a whole hell of a lot but for a struggling student it can mean the difference between a car payment, rent payment or food for the month.

It's a give and take. 
Reservists have a certain expectation BUT it's not set in stone. Still doesn't make it any easier to swallow.

I'm reminded of a comment I heard from a guy at my work regarding the whole class B termination thing when people used the argument "Well in the contract you signed it clearly says you may be given 30 days notice at any time".

If you send your child away to summer camp and they get killed having someone point out that you signed a piece of paper stating 'in the case of a child's death, the camp or staff would not be held responsible' won't really make you sleep better at night.
 
Flawed Design said:
Sadly one of the biggest sales pitches in the reserves is aimed at full time students. We offer 4 Thursday nights a month, sometimes 1 to 4 Tuesday nights a month if your regiment does admin nights. 
Weekends and other odd class A taskings soliders(students) can pick up here and there.  In exchange the same student-soldiers go away during the summer and contribute back to the CF, say by instructing on various courses.

The money reservists get isn't a whole hell of a lot but for a struggling student it can mean the difference between a car payment, rent payment or food for the month.

It's a give and take. 
Reservists have a certain expectation BUT it's not set in stone. Still doesn't make it any easier to swallow.

I'm reminded of a comment I heard from a guy at my work regarding the whole class B termination thing when people used the argument "Well in the contract you signed it clearly says you may be given 30 days notice at any time".

If you send your child away to summer camp and they get killed having someone point out that you signed a piece of paper stating 'in the case of a child's death, the camp or staff would not be held responsible' won't really make you sleep better at night.

Yup. That's by far our biggest pitch- it's what got me and a lot of others in; "It'll fit perfectly with full time studies, and half of us are students anyway; we know and understand the balance that comes with going to school."

No, we have no entitlement to a given amount of work, but it's consistently conveyed in recruiting that there's a certain steady amount of work that we will pretty much always get, and this is almost always borne out in reality. Lack of entitlement notwithstanding, having our work cut like this IS a huge kick in the nuts, it IS a real source of trouble for those of us who for five or six years HAVE been able to depend on such work to pay the bills, and it WILL hurt retention and recruiting. The law of unintended consequences is gonna hit us hard on this.
 
No, we have no entitlement to a given amount of work, but it's consistently conveyed in recruiting that there's a certain steady amount of work that we will pretty much always get, and this is almost always borne out in reality.

To add to that, if you were to apply to any civilian part time job that advertised a certain amount of hours a week or something to that effect, and they fell short, how could you blame people for leaving that job and finding another? They need to pay their bills somehow. Its unfortunate, but that's the way it is. Im hearing more and more people looking for civilian employment now, and particularly for the summer months.
 
The money WAS there for 37 1/2 training days a year.  Since the scale back or what have you, those at the top asked to cut 3 days, to make it 34 1/2 training days a year per class A soldier.  So where did the money go for these reserve units that stood down early, standing back up late, and are on one training night a month?  It seems money was mismanaged and is anything going to be done about that? 

My unit is fortunate enough to have everything running as normal with the exception of probably a PD event being canceled IO to cover the costs that need to be saved/cut.

I also agree with many of the others, reserves really shouldn't bank on anything other than the 37 1/2 training days a year (34 1/2 for now).  That in conjunction with doing your ILP should help students that need to pay for school out.  If you want a completely free ride for school, get your marks up apply to RMC and commit for a few years service once your degree is in hand.
But when money isn't used properly and each reservists doesn't get there 37 1/2 days  year, then something needs to be done, and someone needs to be held accountable.
 
Army introduces cost-saving measures

09-0883_m.jpg

A member of 3RCR mans the turret-mounted machine gun of a G-Wagon prior to departing on an early morning patrol during Exercise Maple Guardian 2008, CFB Wainwright.

Monday, December 21, 2009
Ottawa, ON - The Department of National Defence is adjusting budgets to key priorities, and as a result, the Army will shift spending in some areas in order to ensure sufficient funding for operational training and new equipment.  The Canadian Forces are experiencing a high operational tempo both internationally and domestically, and competing priorities have resulted in funding pressures this fiscal year.  Funding is being adjusted both on a departmental level and within the Army in order to ensure that key obligations are met.

In announcing these measures, the Chief of the Land Staff, LGen Andrew Leslie, said the Army’s “absolute priority” is to prepare soldiers for the combat mission in Afghanistan and other deployed and domestic missions, as well as to ensure that equipment recapitalization projects remain on track. The Commander said the Army must focus on what it has to do, not what it might wish to do.

“We have achieved life-saving and battle-winning standards in training - other spending cannot be allowed to erode those standards,” LGen Leslie said.


09-0883_1.jpg

The Chief of the Land Staff, LGen Andrew Leslie.

The Commander noted that the Army has obtained a substantial increase in funding in recent years, including recent initiatives to expand and recapitalize the land force.  Canadians have demonstrated an overwhelming degree of moral support for their troops and supported the Government in the assignment of additional financial resources.  This summer, the Government announced a commitment to acquire new and refurbished armoured vehicles that will ensure that soldiers have the tools and protection they need.

The Army’s annual budget is now $1.6 billion. Approximately $80 million is being moved to higher CF priorities this fiscal year. Funding adjustments are being spread across the Army to ensure that key priorities are met.  In order to achieve this, the Army will:

•reduce planned activities and training for soldiers not immediately preparing for operations, including non-urgent exercises and adventure training;
•delay non-urgent maintenance and repair of infrastructure and equipment;
•delay procurement of non-essential items including some commercial vehicles;
•reduce administrative travel and conferences;
•reduce information technology expenditures on items such as computers and cell phones; and
•reduce the number of full-time Reservists.
The CLS has cancelled his own overseas travel until the start of the next fiscal year in April 2010. Business-class travel has been cancelled for all ranks, including the CLS, and will only be authorized under special circumstances such as for wounded or injured soldiers who may require extra room on flights.

Much of the attention surrounding this issue has focused on the proposed reductions to Class B positions.  The number of full-time Class B Reservists has increased significantly in the past several years to near historic highs.  The number of Class B Reservists working with the Army in November 2008 was approximately 3,430.  In November 2009 this number increased to about 4,750.  The Army will reduce this number by about 300 in the short term.  Full time Reservists continue to provide an invaluable contribution to the day-to-day running of the Army, but the rapid growth of full time positions has come with a cost.  This added expense, combined with a high operational tempo and the Army’s requirement to support higher DND priorities, creates a situation where Army expenditures are in danger of exceeding the overall budget.  This situation is being addressed by the Army leadership through variety of measures.  Because personnel costs represent a significant portion of the Army’s budget, and due to the recent and unprecedented growth in Class B contracts, some trimming in this area is unavoidable.

The Army could face further reductions in the numbers of Class B Reservists in the next fiscal year, although no decision has yet been made.  The money that is being saved through these reductions will go towards training for those about to go on deployment and to the equipment and vehicles needed to provide those soldiers with the mobility and protection they need.

The Commander said the Reserves are an integral part of the Army team deploying shoulder-to-shoulder with Regular soldiers and carrying a sizeable burden of Canada’s domestic and deployed operations.  Nevertheless, sound financial management involves difficult decisions and unfortunately, one of the areas affected are the Reserves.

“We understand that this these reductions will mean that certain things will not get done and there is risk in such an approach,” LGen Leslie said, but again emphasized that the Army must focus on its top priorities in order to be prepared for whatever tasks and missions lie ahead. In order to sustain the Army’s level of excellence in operations, “we will all have to move beyond watching every dollar to scrutinizing every penny,” he said. “Our soldiers deserve the best possible training to maintain the world class standard they have set on operations.”

Photo: MCpl Vaughan Lightowler, Army News, Petawawa

Project Number: 09-0883
 
Well!  There is one other option, that has so far not been mentioned, and that is to take the Class B Reservists and put them on PRL.  That takes them off the Unit rolls, and places them onto the rolls of the employing organization.  That means that the Class B on a contract at a dot.com is completely under their administration.  They may wear a certain hatbadge, but they do not belong to that Unit; they belong to the dot.com.  A member of the OntR working a Class B in Borden, would belong to Base Borden's rolls, and have no administrative links to the OntR in Oshawa. 

There is no need of the Class B being put into the position that (s)he has to make a life decision to CT or not.  It is a matter of the CF and DND properly managing their hiring practices fairly.
 
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