14 Dec 2025: Bondi Beach Australia Hanukkah Attack

[Fabius]

But I’ll say as a cop who occasionally still teaches active shooter stuff- I’m glad they only had bolt guns and a shotgun. As terrible as this was, with better tools it could have been far worse.

That’s a reasonable view as a professional needing to potentially respond; however both in Australia and here there is a community of people that would take that statement to mean that their firearms bans are not only justified but should be expanded.

Separately, the bystander who intervened and disarmed the one shooter, seemed at a loss of what to do next once he had the firearm. It appears from video that he was trying to give verbal commands that weren’t being obeyed.

Putting down the weapon was likely smart to prevent being engaged by responding officers, since they would not expect bystanders to be armed though.

 

[brihard]

That’s a reasonable view as a professional needing to potentially respond; however both in Australia and here there is a community of people that would take that statement to mean that their firearms bans are not only justified but should be expanded.

Sure. Not a conversation I’m personally having any part of. Objectively, what firearms are used have an impact on how things go. I won’t derail this thread I tk a policy discussion. And just to be clear I’m not suggesting you’re trying to do that.

Separately, the bystander who intervened and disarmed the one shooter, seemed at a loss of what to do next once he had the firearm. It appears from video that he was trying to give verbal commands that weren’t being obeyed.

Yup. Most people don’t go through their live ever having to really thinking about pointing a firearm at someone and what to then do. The guy did amazing as is, and he had the presence of mind to make himself EDIT: NOT look like a threat to responding police.

Update from police:

• 14 dead on scene. Two more died in hospital.
• The deceased range in age from 10 to 87.
• 40 more transported to hospital of which 5 remain in critical condition.
• 2 police shot in serious but stable condition.
• 50 year old shooter shot and killed by police on scene.
• 24 year old shooter transported to hospital under police guard with “critical injuries”.
• 3 firearms seized and being forensically examined.

 

[Infanteer]

Remember when beatniks march with Global Intifada signs, this is what they mean.

 

[Fabius]

Yup. Most people don’t go through their live ever having to really thinking about pointing a firearm at someone and what to then do. The guy did amazing as is, and he had the presence of mind to make himself look like a threat to responding police.

Of course.
I have read that once disarmed the one shooter retreated to the bridge covered by fire from the other shooter (that was the gunfire that impacted the brave bystander I think). Once at the bridge the disarmed shooter rearmed himself with another weapon and the two continued on.

Have not seen video of that fully played out though.

 

[brihard]

Of course.
I have read that once disarmed the one shooter retreated to the bridge covered by fire from the other shooter (that was the gunfire that impacted the brave bystander I think). Once at the bridge the disarmed shooter rearmed himself with another weapon and the two continued on.

Have not seen video of that fully played out though.

I’ve seen several videos of all of that, and yes. Once disarmed he went back to the bridge, grabbed the spare shotgun, and fired a few more rounds. Looks like police caught them by surprise from behind and killed the one who had previously been tackled. I believe there’s a nearby police station in that direction. The other shooter then 180 turns and shoots back.

 

[OldSolduer]

Remember when beatniks march with Global Intifada signs, this is what they mean.

And the terrorists won't spare them either.

 

[IKnowNothing]

A.

That’s a reasonable view as a professional needing to potentially respond;

B.

in Australia and here there is a community of people that would take that statement to mean that their firearms bans are not only justified

C.

but should be expanded.

Mod please delete or move if not the thread, but the way I see it that those that rush in to argue against A. to keep it from being used to reinforce B. cannot do so without providing fuel to C.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Remember when beatniks march with Global Intifada signs, this is what they mean.

 

[brihard]

Per BBC, police now confirm:

• Attackers were father and son.
• The father legally owned six firearms.
• Six firearms were seized at the scene.
• Two active IEDs we’re rendered safe at the scene.
• Two properties have been searched.

Bondi Beach gunmen who killed 15 after targeting Jewish celebration were father and son, police say

The 50-year-old father has been confirmed dead, while the 24-year-old son is in critical condition, police say. Dozens of victims are in hospital.

www.bbc.com

 

[RangerRay]

Without getting all “Where the f@&$ were the cops?”, for the close proximity of the sirens it seemed to take a while for police to engage the shooters. Were they ordered to await tactical teams and finally said “F@&$ it”?

It’s too bad there were a lot of drunken yobos who wanted to get their licks in afterwards. Made the job of securing the scene afterwards that much harder.

My heart goes out to the innocents and police involved in this nightmare.

 

[Booter]

Australian and NZ while having some armed police response generally have a contain and deploy tactical baseline.

I’ve cross trained with their instructors- there is a big difference in their aggress phases. Not right or wrong- just a different gas pedal- and more in line with their 99% environment. An outlier call like that can create an issue for that method- but approaching it differently would drastically change their day to day responses that works for their environment- for the one a decade call. I’m not on either side in the discussion I just know it’s different.

They also have a different relationship with their CT resources unless something drastically has changed,

This is also an outlier for an active shooter because there are two shooters. That’s a very low percentage event and most active shooter training is moving away from training that as the assumed set up.

Still approach everything from the idea their could be multiple shooters but the skills being favoured on the room entries and drives are built on high percentage single shooter scenarios compared to the playbook to multiple threats.

Always changing.

Terrible situation. But a more close comparison for this shooting are the shootings where the victims are kettled in an area outside rather than a building entry with multiple pockets. Very different animal- identifying where the shooters are etc.

Lots of ALS and BLS skills in the bystanders.

Also, here and elsewhere I’ve actually noticed the responses slowing down to major events anecdotally. I believe it’s technology. Multiple levels get real time info now and identifying the decision maker to deploy and who etc seems to be creating a mini paralysis- cell phones going off towards people in the event rather than them calling out for the resources etc they need. Info being pulled instead of results being pushed.

But I’m an old guy.

As an oversimplification, this takes place in an outdoor place. You have four cops in that area. Almost simultaneous to the initial call your cell network would be overwhelmed with people calling from multiple spaces in that open spaces- all reporting seeing shooters etc even from a 100 yards away. Once that happens you now have a call “in the park” that on either end has observed shooters- and tips coming in. That’s a huge space. All you can do is keep momentum- but it can be a huge area.

Pin pointing where you drive the police takes time if they don’t get lucky in the first 60 seconds, they then are chasing what they see- people fleeing, pointing etc.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Also heard somewhere (CBC?) that one of the shooters was known to the police. Haven't heard/seen any follow-up.

 

[daftandbarmy]

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[brihard]

Also heard somewhere (CBC?) that one of the shooters was known to the police. Haven't heard/seen any follow-up.

Nor I. Though dad was a licensed firearms owner for a decade, so presumably they’ve both been there a long time, and dad was considered clean.

If known to anyone in the security threat context, more likely the son, and more likely it was to ASIS, not police.

 

[mariomike]

I read Hatzolah was on scene.

Not sure how they handle ASHE in Australia. No mention of RTF.

 

[Fabius]

Potential ISIS connection identified by Australian authorities.

The ABC understands investigators from the Joint Counter Terrorism Team (JCTT), a unit comprised of state and federal agencies, believe the gunmen had pledged allegiance to the IS terrorist group.

Two IS flags were found in their car at Bondi Beach, according to senior officials speaking on condition of anonymity.

One flag could be seen in footage from the scene on the bonnet of the car.

A senior JCTT official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said ASIO took an interest in Naveed Akram six years ago after police foiled plans for an IS terrorist attack.

ASIO examined Bondi Beach gunman in 2019 for ties to Islamic State cell

Australia's domestic intelligence agency, ASIO, examined one of the Bondi Beach gunmen six years ago for his close ties to a Sydney-based Islamic State terrorism cell, the ABC understands.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Yes they do. You’ll note in the videos the very slow rate of fire, and the photo appears to show a shotgun and a hunting rifle, both of which can still be legally obtained there. While I would be surprised if both of the shooters legally owned firearms, these sorts of long guns would be more readily ‘in circulation’ in Australia. Given the target environment they had, how long it went on, and how many victims there already were, the number of casualties would likely have been far higher had they had better firearms more suitable for such an attack.

Looking at it from a police lens, in various videos I’ve seen, I don’t think I’ve seen a responding patrol officer with a long gun, and few were wearing plates. I don’t know what NSW protocol for active shooter is or how many have completed active shooter training. You can definitely see at about 4:00 in the long video when the shooters first take return fire and their behaviour changes radically. At that point it became a shootout with police, two of whom were seriously wounded.

That’s a shitty, shitty fight to have to fight with only pistols…

Australian and NZ while having some armed police response generally have a contain and deploy tactical baseline.

I’ve cross trained with their instructors- there is a big difference in their aggress phases. Not right or wrong- just a different gas pedal- and more in line with their 99% environment. An outlier call like that can create an issue for that method- but approaching it differently would drastically change their day to day responses that works for their environment- for the one a decade call. I’m not on either side in the discussion I just know it’s different.

They also have a different relationship with their CT resources unless something drastically has changed,

This is also an outlier for an active shooter because there are two shooters. That’s a very low percentage event and most active shooter training is moving away from training that as the assumed set up.

Still approach everything from the idea their could be multiple shooters but the skills being favoured on the room entries and drives are built on high percentage single shooter scenarios compared to the playbook to multiple threats.

Always changing.

Terrible situation. But a more close comparison for this shooting are the shootings where the victims are kettled in an area outside rather than a building entry with multiple pockets. Very different animal- identifying where the shooters are etc.

Lots of ALS and BLS skills in the bystanders.

Also, here and elsewhere I’ve actually noticed the responses slowing down to major events anecdotally. I believe it’s technology. Multiple levels get real time info now and identifying the decision maker to deploy and who etc seems to be creating a mini paralysis- cell phones going off towards people in the event rather than them calling out for the resources etc they need. Info being pulled instead of results being pushed.

But I’m an old guy.

As an oversimplification, this takes place in an outdoor place. You have four cops in that area. Almost simultaneous to the initial call your cell network would be overwhelmed with people calling from multiple spaces in that open spaces- all reporting seeing shooters etc even from a 100 yards away. Once that happens you now have a call “in the park” that on either end has observed shooters- and tips coming in. That’s a huge space. All you can do is keep momentum- but it can be a huge area.

Pin pointing where you drive the police takes time if they don’t get lucky in the first 60 seconds, they then are chasing what they see- people fleeing, pointing etc.

I'm no longer really paying attention to tactics or training but looks like the Police aren't trained in IARD and their TTPs appear to be radically different from what would be seen here, in the US or somewhere like the UK or Mainland Europe.

Having been to Australia and NZ, this isn't particularly surprising. Rank & file Kiwi Police aren't even armed with firearms.

The police forces there in terms of Armed Response seem to be similar to what the UK was like 30 years ago. Rank and file British Police aren't armed either but their Armed Response Units are constantly patrolling and response is generally minutes away.

I expect some AARs and Inquiries will probably lead to some radical changes, similar to Moncton/Mayerthorpe.


Also, in one of the videos, you can clearly see a police truck drive right by the shooters while they were both on the bridge, probably trying to get their bearings.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I'm no longer really paying attention to tactics or training but looks like the Police aren't trained in IARD and their TTPs appear to be radically different from what would be seen here, in the US or somewhere like the UK or Mainland Europe.

Having been to Australia and NZ, this isn't particularly surprising. Rank & file Kiwi Police aren't even armed with firearms.

The police forces there in terms of Armed Response seem to be similar to what the UK was like 30 years ago. Rank and file British Police aren't armed either but their Armed Response Units are constantly patrolling and response is generally minutes away.

I expect some AARs and Inquiries will probably lead to some radical changes, similar to Moncton/Mayerthorpe.


Also, in one of the videos, you can clearly see a police truck drive right by the shooters while they were both on the bridge, probably trying to get their bearings.

The post incident pontificating has commenced


Bondi terror: Attack reinforces the need for security frameworks that manage risk


The terror attack at Bondi Beach on Sunday should be understood not only as an act of violence but as a stress test of Australia’s security, social and policy systems.

The immediate danger has passed. The more consequential question is what this event reveals about the community assumptions that have quietly taken hold—and what follows if those assumptions are left unchallenged.

For many Australians, the violence collided with a deeply held belief: that the terror years were behind us, that the period had had justified nearly 25 years of counterterrorism legislation, regulatory oversight, intelligence reform and expanded police powers had closed. While official threat assessments have consistently warned that violence remains probable, public sentiment has arguably drifted towards the view that these frameworks were relics of a different time.

Bondi Beach exposes the fragility of that belief.

Australia’s National Terrorism Threat Level did not change overnight. It remains at ‘Probable’. Over time, the absence of large-scale attacks has fostered an impression for some that the risk has dissipated rather than evolved. In that environment, counterterrorism laws increasingly came to be viewed for some not as risk-management tools, but as constraints—excessive, outdated or no longer proportionate.

That complacency is itself a strategic vulnerability.

Bondi terror: Attack reinforces the need for security frameworks that manage risk | The Strategist

The terror attack at Bondi Beach on Sunday should be understood not only as an act of violence but as a stress test of Australia’s security, social and policy systems. The immediate danger has passed. ...

www.aspistrategist.org.au

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The post incident pontificating has commenced


Bondi terror: Attack reinforces the need for security frameworks that manage risk


The terror attack at Bondi Beach on Sunday should be understood not only as an act of violence but as a stress test of Australia’s security, social and policy systems.

The immediate danger has passed. The more consequential question is what this event reveals about the community assumptions that have quietly taken hold—and what follows if those assumptions are left unchallenged.

For many Australians, the violence collided with a deeply held belief: that the terror years were behind us, that the period had had justified nearly 25 years of counterterrorism legislation, regulatory oversight, intelligence reform and expanded police powers had closed. While official threat assessments have consistently warned that violence remains probable, public sentiment has arguably drifted towards the view that these frameworks were relics of a different time.

Bondi Beach exposes the fragility of that belief.

Australia’s National Terrorism Threat Level did not change overnight. It remains at ‘Probable’. Over time, the absence of large-scale attacks has fostered an impression for some that the risk has dissipated rather than evolved. In that environment, counterterrorism laws increasingly came to be viewed for some not as risk-management tools, but as constraints—excessive, outdated or no longer proportionate.

That complacency is itself a strategic vulnerability.

Bondi terror: Attack reinforces the need for security frameworks that manage risk | The Strategist

The terror attack at Bondi Beach on Sunday should be understood not only as an act of violence but as a stress test of Australia’s security, social and policy systems. The immediate danger has passed. ...

www.aspistrategist.org.au

I think he needs to replace the word assumption with "desire".

An actual assumption is "there will always be terrorists"... therefore, we should Probably take some sort of precautions/security measures to contain the threat.

Meanwhile every Jewish group in Canada is quietly wondering when it's their turn to experience this.

 

[Fabius]

Here’s what the Premier of NSW and NSW Police Commissioner are talking about. Here's the latest from the NSW government.

​

We just heard from the NSW premier and police commissioner. Here's what they said:

• Bondi Beach Public School remains closed due to its proximity to the crime scene.
• Based on his condition, the 24-year-old shooter in hospital is likely to face criminal charges, Police Commissioner Mal Lanyon says.
• The premier says 50-year-old gunman Sajid Arkram had a category AB licence that entitled him to own the long arms he did.
• Gun laws will change in the wake of this tragedy, Chris Minns says.
• The premier is not sure if security at the Hanukkah event held firearms.
• Off-duty police officers drove to Bondi in response to the attack.
• The premier is considering recalling parliament to fast-track new gun legislation.
• There are multiple investigations underway.

Live: Premier says Bondi Beach shooting will bring 'overwhelming' response

Fifteen people were killed, including a 10-year-old girl. One of the two gunmen has also died, while a further 42 people were taken to hospital. Follow live.

www.abc.net.au