1980s combat uniform pockets / Mess Kit accuracy

[The Bread Guy]

I recall that the "pen holder" slot was originally intended for the dosimeter; however, my first dosimeter was circular (issued to me in 1989).  So, perhaps it was later intended for the autoinjector.

The only dosimeters I ever saw in central Canada were the "little telescope" ones (like the one on the far right below)

that fit into the "pen holder" sleeve on the side of the (right?) chest pocket.

 

[the 48th regulator]

One of the breast pockets may have been used for the silva compass with the lanyard attached behind the button.

Frig me, I forgot about that, so true.  The Silva compass threaded through the button and tucked into the pocket.

dileas

tess

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I recall that the "pen holder" slot was originally intended for the dosimeter; however, my first dosimeter was circular (issued to me in 1989).  So, perhaps it was later intended for the autoinjector.  (I used a "training autoinjector" on my thighs during a QL 1 Infantryman course back in my Militia time.  One word: ouch!)

The small puck shaped one that hung around your neck was a DT-60\PD and had to be sent in to the techs and had to be exposed to near UV radiation to be read. The pen shaped one (CD V-742, IIRC) was able to be read and zeroed (reset), by the use of a charger, by the person carrying it. Both would give values of personal exposure, but the later was able to be read immediately by looking through it at the graph.

Your atropine (3) and diazepam (1) auto injectors are carried in your mask carrier, where everyone knows where they are, and how many, in case you're incapacitated. Epipen are a recentl (20 years/) phneomenon for someone to carry.

The pen pocket was designed for your dosimeter, but never had widespread use for that.

That's how I remember everything anyways.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Frig me, I forgot about that, so true.  The Silva compass threaded through the button and tucked into the pocket.

dileas

tess

What is this 'Silva' you talk about? A prismatic in a pouch, attached to your webbing is my memory. ;D

 

[the 48th regulator]

What is this 'Silva' you talk about? A prismatic in a pouch, attached to your webbing is my memory. ;D

Remember,

I was the kid that could not keep a good zippo.  I think every base in Ontario, and Gagetown, has a Lighter with my name engraved on it, lying in it's training area.  I needed the button, and the string attached to  the compass to be able to keep it close at hand! 

dileas

tess

 

[Loachman]

I read some place that the 2 chest pockets and the shirt cargo pockets held rifle magazines, but if the magazines where fully loaded, would it not rip the shirt? How comfertable would it have been? Could you use them to hold magazines while wearing the p82 web gear?

Full mags would not rip the shirt, as it was designed to withstand the stresses. Carrying magazines this way was uncomfortable and the magazines were awkward to get in and out, especially during fire-and-movement, and whenever one changed shirts a lot of stuff had to be removed and put into the clean shirt. The 82 Pattern webbing had magazine pouches, including pouches for the C1 SMG (no means of carrying them were provided prior to that), so carrying magazines in pockets was no longer required.

The olive green combat clothing was designed along with the 64 Pattern webbing, which was very lightweight, had few pouches (mess tin pouch, water bottle pouch, grenade pouch, and compass pouch, but no magazine pouches - many people took to using 51 Pattern ammunition pouches for magazines).

Photographs and description of the 82 Pattern webbing components can be found at http://mpmuseum.org/securequip2.html.

Figure 3 of http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFullText/RTO/MP/RTO-MP-056///MP-056-18A.pdf lacks the mess tin/utility pouch, which should be on the opposite side of the small pack from the water bottle carrier. These may have been reversed at some units. This paper may be of interest to those who want to know more about development of the current CTS equipment (Tac Vest, Small Pack, and Rucksack).

There's another photo at http://www.queensu.ca/conferences/mvhr/images/pdf/presentations/Stevenson_Joan_MVHR2010.pdf, which shows the water bottle on the right-hand side, where I carried mine.

WOW! wish I was around back than.

If you were, then you would be as old as some of us. The trade-off may or may not have been worth it.

Are you near any military museums?

 

[Pusser]

The small puck shaped one that hung around your neck was a DT-60\PD and had to be sent in to the techs and had to be exposed to near UV radiation to be read. The pen shaped one (CD V-742, IIRC) was able to be read and zeroed (reset), by the use of a charger, by the person carrying it. Both would give values of personal exposure, but the later was able to be read immediately by looking through it at the graph.

These dosimeters had different purposes.  The DT60 (puck) was supposed to track an individual's total exposure over a long period of time (e.g. years, a career?), whereas the pencil shaped ones were more for immediate exposure.  They were given to teams with instructions like, stay outside until you receive this much and then come back in.  Then the dosimeter would be zeroed and given to the next team, etc. 

 

[lisa_barbi]

the closest we have to a military museum is the old cj5 jeep at the gas station that someone put a plow on. witch is also another reason why i would like to put a hole uniform set together. so far its not so bad but its the detailed items, like whats in the and each of the pockets, that is some what hard to find out. another things that are hard to find out is stuff like what did the old dog tags looked like (i have an idea what was stamped on them just do not know what it looked like, also how long the chain is), what rest did the watch go on, what shoulder dose the lanyard go on and what was attached to it, what type of underwear (and color) did women wear (guys i am taking is briefs and any color they like) under the combat uniform (witch i have assumed is basic every day civilian underwear), was the boots crossed laced or ladder laced (witch if someone could explain how to do it so it looks good), also trying to find out what did the sunglasses look like and so on and so forth. small little things that you never think about when you are doing it or even care about. little hints and advice that was given like field stripping a cigerette (even though that dose not apply her but you get the point, hopefully).

 

[Loachman]

Are you near any large cities?

Pocket contents varied, as has been said, with the individual. There is no wrong or right. The old I tags looked like the current ones, but were aluminum instead of the current stainless steel. We've had the stainless ones for many years now, adn I cannot recall when they first came out. I believe that CP gear can make up the current ones. There's also a thread somewhere that can help. Watches were/are worn on whichever wrist the wearer wished/wishes. Lanyards could vary by unit, if worn, but most that I saw were worn on the left shoulder. The only issued underwear were the olive green cotton boxer shorts. I don't think that many people wore them, so pick whatever you like that was available back then and you'll be reasonably right. Combat boots were/are cross-laced, and I've seen variations of that, too. I believe that there's a thread about that on here, too. Silver-framed light-weight polarized "aviator"-style sunglasses were available for purchase, and there were a couple of different sunglasses issued to aircrew (none of which were popular). Most people who wore sunglasses wore whatever they wanted, so long as they were conservative.

And it's "which" that you should be using, unless you mean warty-nosed women with pointy black hats.

 

[lisa_barbi]

yea sorry for the bad spelling. can not spel worth a darn, good thing me math is gooder. just kidding, it worse! Oh come on have a little ha ha guys

 

[lisa_barbi]

Can someone supply me with information and/or photos of the old 1980s 1 SVC BN mess dress uniform (as warn by a cpl)? Also did the 1 SVC BN have a dress red uniform simular to the ones warn by the RCR? If so, what did it look like?

 

[Scott]

Remember,

I was the kid that could not keep a good zippo.  I think every base in Ontario, and Gagetown, has a Lighter with my name engraved on it, lying in it's training area.  I needed the button, and the string attached to  the compass to be able to keep it close at hand! 

dileas

tess

I found one in Lawfield and hawked it on eBay. Cheers for the beers it bought.

Unrelated, but my best disovery was that the parka pockets mag holder fit a tallboy to exact spec. Great when watching Bn hockey games.

 

[Franko]

Merged your threads and changed the title for accuracy.

The Army.ca Staff

 

[Pusser]

Can someone supply me with information and/or photos of the old 1980s 1 SVC BN mess dress uniform (as warn by a cpl)? Also did the 1 SVC BN have a dress red uniform simular to the ones warn by the RCR? If so, what did it look like?

Although corporals now can, they generally don't wear mess kit and in the 1980s it would be very surprising to see that.  Only regular force officers are required to have mess kit.  Most often, corporals would simply wear their service dress uniform with a white shirt, black bow tie and undress ribbons for a mess function.

Unlike a regiment, the composition of a service battalion consists of personnel from several branches of the CF and since ceremonial uniforms go by branch/regiment, there is no one ceremonial uniform that they all could wear.  Thus, in answer to your question, there is no red uniform for 1 SVC BN.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Can someone supply me with information and/or photos of the old 1980s 1 SVC BN mess dress uniform (as warn by a cpl)? Also did the 1 SVC BN have a dress red uniform simular to the ones warn by the RCR? If so, what did it look like?

Details of mess dress will vary by regiment or branch.  1 Svc Bn (being neither a regiment or branch) would not have a unique mess dress, but the individuals in that unit would wear the mess kit appropriate to their branch.  Uniforms changed in the later half of the 1980s when DEUs were introduced; same for mess dress uniforms.  Unless one was entitled to wear (and could still fit into) their pre-unification Canadian Army mess dress, they wore the CF standard pattern (same as the current air force one?) with some minor differences in accoutrements.  While it may now be more common (but still rare) for Cpls to acquire mess uniforms, it was very unusual back then; I never knew any junior NCOs who had mess kit.  In the event of having to attend a "mess dinner" (very rare back then for junior ranks - probably the first for most would be the "training" mess dinner on JLC) the uniform would be "CF greens" (and later DEUs) with a white shirt and black bowtie for men or the "dress blouse" for women.

 

[lisa_barbi]

Did many of the female soldiers place their wallets in the inside shirt pocket or in the rear pants pockets? Also did many put their keys in the inside shirt pocket too?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Did many of the female soldiers place their wallets in the inside shirt pocket or in the rear pants pockets? Also did many put their keys in the inside shirt pocket too?

As has been stated a couple of times before, placement of items was a personal preference. You put stuff where you wanted. If you are going to make a display, YOU can put things where YOU personally want and  YOU won't be wrong.

Please, enough OK?

Milnet.ca Staff