2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Halifax Tar]

I was talking about Polievre sorry, I thought that was who we were talking about.

Oh! Maybe we were! Desolee!

 

[daftandbarmy]

It's time for the Conservatives to wander in the political wilderness for awhile, methinks:

“Every prophet has to come from civilization, but every prophet has to go into the wilderness. He must have a strong impression of a complex society and all that it has to give, and then he must serve periods of isolation and meditation. This is the process by which psychic dynamite is made.” Winston Churchill

 

[Scott]

I referenced two Peters, or Pierres, depending how you look at it.

The one with zero work experience outside politics is Pierre Polievre.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I do believe hes been a lawyer

Peter MacKay - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I used to see Peter in the underground in Toronto pre-pandemic. Would stop and say hello and ask how things were going. Very friendly, approachable guy, always came across as a nice guy, not some schmuck full of himself.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I used to see Peter in the underground in Toronto pre-pandemic. Would stop and say hello and ask how things were going. Very friendly, approachable guy, always came across as a nice guy, not some schmuck full of himself.

He is a very down to earth guy... and a very Pictou typical rugby player lol

 

[Scott]

Agreed. I know Peter still does stuff for vets when he can as well, on a personal and family level. It's always refreshing to see.

 

[Good2Golf]

I referenced two Peters, or Pierres, depending how you look at it.

The one with zero work experience outside politics is Pierre Polievre.

Wait…as a teenager he was in door-to-door sales for the local…..errr…never mind…


Pierre Poilièvre’s early years…

It is a political coming of age. At 16, he was using his radio announcer's voice to sell Reform Party memberships for Jason Kenney. Mr. Poilievre's only real private-sector job was a post-university stint as partner in a company that did robocalls for politicians. He was a young staffer for Stockwell Day, and, after 18 months in Ottawa, ran for Parliament. Now he's a senior figure.

 

[OldSolduer]

It's time for the Conservatives to wander in the political wilderness for awhile, methinks:

“Every prophet has to come from civilization, but every prophet has to go into the wilderness. He must have a strong impression of a complex society and all that it has to give, and then he must serve periods of isolation and meditation. This is the process by which psychic dynamite is made.” Winston Churchill

They should until they come to their senses. The CPC or whoever they are this week has a considerable number of "bible belters" - anti abortion and some are downright misogynists - those are the cancers that need to be culled.

 

[dimsum]

They should until they come to their senses. The CPC or whoever they are this week has a considerable number of "bible belters" - anti abortion and some are downright misogynists - those are the cancers that need to be culled.

I like to call them "the PPC demographic".

 

[Good2Golf]

If the PCP stood-up tomorrow, I wonder what the end-state share of current (and potential Blue Libs jumping back, at least to the PCP) conservatives would be across the PCP-CPC-PPC spectrum?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Disagree.

So it's Canadian politics that's bleeding across into US politics and not the other way around? Interesting hypothesis. Evidence?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I actually don't think it's a bad thing they got rid of Erin O'Toole and don't even think this had anything to do with Erin O'Toole being too WOKE.

I think this letter in the Calgary Sun does a great job of highlighting the real issue with O'Toole:

Letters, Feb. 2: 'O'Toole had his chance to beat Trudeau and blew it'

O’TOOLE IS NOT THE GUY

calgarysun.com

O’TOOLE IS NOT THE GUY

First of all, Erin O’Toole is not the man to run the Conservative party any longer. He couldn’t beat Justin Trudeau, who at the time had amassed all sorts of social faux-pas, illegal politics and sexist misgivings where even a turtle could have beat him in the last election. We need a young, charismatic leader with hutzpah who can clobber Trudeau the next time around. O’Toole meeting with a group of ill-informed truckers protesting in Ottawa is also pure folly. These truckers do not have the backing of the majority of other truckers and people in this country and given the fact that almost 90% of the population are vaccinated, their protest cries fall on deaf ears.

MOLLY KENS

Hit the nail squarely on the head with that comment IMO. Ironically, the revolt was led by some of the younger members of the Caucus.

Also, when they said Hutzpah, they obviously meant to type Chutzpah. For this who haven't heard that word before:

Chutzpah: extreme self-confidence or audacity

 

[Altair]

I actually don't think it's a bad thing they got rid of Erin O'Toole and don't even think this had anything to do with Erin O'Toole being too WOKE.

I think this letter in the Calgary Sun does a great job of highlighting the real issue with O'Toole:

Letters, Feb. 2: 'O'Toole had his chance to beat Trudeau and blew it'

O’TOOLE IS NOT THE GUY

calgarysun.com

Hit the nail squarely on the head with that comment IMO. Ironically, the revolt was led by some of the younger members of the Caucus.

Also, when they said Hutzpah, they obviously meant to type Chutzpah. For this who haven't heard that word before:

Chutzpah: extreme self-confidence or audacity

Not many leaders win on the first try.

but if the CPC want to recycle their leaders every time they do not win, thats fine by me.

Secondly, I don't think the reason O'Toole was turfed was because he wasn't young or charismatic enough, and I don't think that will be the criteria on who replaces him.

I'm firmly of the belief that the SOCON wing of the CPC thought O'Toole was one of them, voted for him to win the leadership over the red tory Mackay, and then when O'Toole did his swerve to the middle he was on borrowed time unless he could win the election.

I don't think the SOCON wing of the CPC will go for anyone who isn't a bonified SOCON next time around. Polievre isn't that guy IMHO, so I don't see him winning unless he can convince everyone its a fair accompli and its a simple coronation. Otherwise someone from that SOCON win that just turfed O'Toole will be the new CPC leader.

 

[Good2Golf]

I actually don't think it's a bad thing they got rid of Erin O'Toole and don't even think this had anything to do with Erin O'Toole being too WOKE.

I think this letter in the Calgary Sun does a great job of highlighting the real issue with O'Toole:

Letters, Feb. 2: 'O'Toole had his chance to beat Trudeau and blew it'

O’TOOLE IS NOT THE GUY

calgarysun.com

Hit the nail squarely on the head with that comment IMO. Ironically, the revolt was led by some of the younger members of the Caucus.

Also, when they said Hutzpah, they obviously meant to type Chutzpah. For this who haven't heard that word before:

Chutzpah: extreme self-confidence or audacity

Since it’s a Yiddish word, the H or Ch is an anglicization. Hunukah or Chanukah ? Same thing.

 

[KevinB]

They should until they come to their senses. The CPC or whoever they are this week has a considerable number of "bible belters" - anti abortion and some are downright misogynists - those are the cancers that need to be culled.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Being Anti-Abortion doesn't mean one is misogynistic, it also doesn't mean one is Anti-Anything else. One can have beliefs, and the beauty of Western Civilization can be free to express them. In both Canada and America people have Freedom of Religion, and many religions hold certain views about things. My personal view that in 2022, there are enough way to avoid pregnancy, that abortion simply as a means of birth control is pretty barbaric. But I'm not out bombing abortion clinics, or screaming at people going in to Hospitals for that. I don't think abortion is generally healthy mentally for the woman either - and there is a lot of peer reviewed data that supports that. However society as a whole hasn't done a very effective job in coming up with better alternatives for a lot of pregnant women, and that to me is a major fail. Before you could even begin to fathom changes to the Canadian lack of law, you would need to address alternatives, and have those up and working well in advance.

In Politics one needs to be pragmatic, and realize that no one persons view will line up 100% with the views of others. The key to being a successful Political Party is to find a common ground where one can attract a majority. It also means that you need to weigh the different opinions of your supporters, and potential supporters, and be prepared to make choices that will not make some of your party happy.
Fringe segments of the population while loud and active, don't win elections on their own - the boring middle of the road folks do -- so you need to find out what of their needs/wants are also important to your party - and court the to your side.

The various Right leaning Political parties in Canada haven't done that effectively in ages, and they won't be a real party until they muzzle or kick out the fringe. They also need to come across as honest, as based not he last few they seem to be blowing with the wind, and letting the LPC rattle them, and the voters.

What Canada should not do, is look down here for guidance - down here, both Parties pick the biggest idiot running, and see if the American public is still dumb enough to vote for them.

 

[QV]

This is why we can't have nice things.

Being Anti-Abortion doesn't mean one is misogynistic, it also doesn't mean one is Anti-Anything else. One can have beliefs, and the beauty of Western Civilization can be free to express them. In both Canada and America people have Freedom of Religion, and many religions hold certain views about things. My personal view that in 2022, there are enough way to avoid pregnancy, that abortion simply as a means of birth control is pretty barbaric. But I'm not out bombing abortion clinics, or screaming at people going in to Hospitals for that. I don't think abortion is generally healthy mentally for the woman either - and there is a lot of peer reviewed data that supports that. However society as a whole hasn't done a very effective job in coming up with better alternatives for a lot of pregnant women, and that to me is a major fail. Before you could even begin to fathom changes to the Canadian lack of law, you would need to address alternatives, and have those up and working well in advance.

In Politics one needs to be pragmatic, and realize that no one persons view will line up 100% with the views of others. The key to being a successful Political Party is to find a common ground where one can attract a majority. It also means that you need to weigh the different opinions of your supporters, and potential supporters, and be prepared to make choices that will not make some of your party happy.
Fringe segments of the population while loud and active, don't win elections on their own - the boring middle of the road folks do -- so you need to find out what of their needs/wants are also important to your party - and court the to your side.

The various Right leaning Political parties in Canada haven't done that effectively in ages, and they won't be a real party until they muzzle or kick out the fringe. They also need to come across as honest, as based not he last few they seem to be blowing with the wind, and letting the LPC rattle them, and the voters.

What Canada should not do, is look down here for guidance - down here, both Parties pick the biggest idiot running, and see if the American public is still dumb enough to vote for them.

According to our PM there are a great many people in this country with unacceptable views. It sounds like you would also be in the category of possessing unacceptable views, if you lived here.

 

[KevinB]

According to our PM there are a great many people in this country with unacceptable views. It sounds like you would also be in the category of possessing unacceptable views, if you lived here.

Warms my heart to know PMJT (the alleged groping perv and alleged crooked weasel), thinks I hold unacceptable views. He is an absolutely repugnant creature, and another reason I love to look up at my Naturalization Certificate to the United States of America.

 

[Altair]

Warms my heart to know JT the crooked weasel, thinks I hold unacceptable views. He is an absolutely repugnant creature, and another reason I love to look up at my Naturalization Certificate to the United States of America.

Always nice to see how the CPC turfing their leader leads to Justin Trudeau hate.

At some point the CPC is going to be a party that has one coherent policy other than JT sucks, right?

 

[KevinB]

Always nice to see how the CPC turfing their leader leads to Justin Trudeau hate.

At some point the CPC is going to be a party that has one coherent policy other than JT sucks, right?

Trump won based on Hillary hate then Biden won on Trump hate, at a certain point it is effective.

You actually could make a pretty compelling party based on JT Sucks, you just need to air it all out, and have a solution, because clearly Canada isn't done with this Castro Trudeau yet, so hate and hate alone won't get the job done.

Ethics doesn't seem to be a major issue for Canadian Voters though -- unless it's the CAF.

 

[FJAG]

Being Anti-Abortion doesn't mean one is misogynistic, it also doesn't mean one is Anti-Anything else. One can have beliefs, and the beauty of Western Civilization can be free to express them.

We agree on so many things but not this one. The problem is in the terminology. It's not anti or pro abortion - its anti or pro choice. Being against terminating a pregnancy is not a problem. Don't want one - don't have one. The problem isn't expressing that opinion either, although some do get very strident and in your face about it.

The problem comes when the anti-choice faction is bent on denying choice to everyone regardless of their beliefs which is what is happening in Republican controlled State governments. Once you impose your beliefs on others who do not share them, especially since this universally effects women, then it is misogynistic.

And while true that being anti-choice doesn't automatically make one anti-anything else, its not unusual that the trait is shared by many who are also against gay marriage or gays in general. I've always found it ironic that many who espouse freedom as their God-given right, would deny it to so many others.

This is why I am so questioning my allegiance to the CPC. I was on my local riding executive until right into the election when I was gob smacked by the extent it, including O'Toole, was kowtowing to its SOCON wing. My own MP is part of that group although she tries to adopt a veneer of tolerance. I quit the executive, I'm seriously thinking of quitting the party although I expect I'll be lost in the wilderness because I'm not an LPC fan. I can live with most of their social policies but I despise the "born to rule" mentality of the mob that controls the party.

Always nice to see how the CPC turfing their leader leads to Justin Trudeau hate.

Turfing O'Toole doesn't lead to Justin Trudeau hate. Justin was hated universally well before O'Toole was ever elected as leader. I come by my dislike of Justin quite naturally. I disliked his father back in the day and with him at least you could say that he was intelligent and not just a pretty face in pretty socks. The problem isn't so much Justin and his hypocrisy as the machine that runs him.