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2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

Well let's face it, no one can make a living serving coffee for 10+ years at tims. It's a entry level job but it's also a job that it seems like many younger canadaians see as beneath them. As a result foreign labour takes the jobs people here don't want.

I don't doubt we have a segment in our society that needs to have their attitudes adjusted. I also know, anecdotally, of parents whose teenage kids can't get part time jobs either. Lots of resumes and applications, no call backs.

And my observation we long time workers, not some teenager. The manager at CT I had been dealing with since we bought our house about 15 years ago, and since before the store moved from Clayton Park to Bayer's Lake.

I dunno maybe it's just coincidence and these people all just moved on...
 
My guess would be inter-provincial migration at the manager/franchisee level. 2nd or established 1st gen Canadians that have worked their tails off in the GTA seek greener pastures to pursue their own entrepreneurial dreams when they're ready. Bringing working family members, friends from within their diaspora with them to work. Then layer on TFW to fill in the gaps.

Maybe... If I ever meet those people again I will ask what happened.
 
There aren't really "jobs Canadians won't do". There are jobs Canadians don't want to pay enough to have done. It should be intuitively obvious that people coming from less prosperous circumstances - call that "Point A", and call the minimum circumstances attractive to well-seasoned Canadians "Point B" - will look at Canada and settle for opportunities in the gap between "Point A" and "Point B", because those amount to net improvements from their points of view. Studies tend to bear that out. That behaviour can be confirmed by looking at employment ranging from menial tasks like picking fruit, to analytical tasks like writing software. Bringing in people willing to work for less in any particular occupation subject to market competition amounts to downward pressure on wages. The presence of social benefits aggravates the problem by making the region closer to "Point A" more attractive than it otherwise might be, and by placing financial obligations on the people required to fund the benefits, some of whom will be experiencing the downward pressure on wages. None of that is a moral judgement on social benefits. The phenomena are empirically observable and observed, and the resulting problems can either be solved or whined about using the languages of activism.

People who want quality childcare - "I care about my child" - at prices that pay unattractive wages to the line workers, or that are paid by other people, ought to really admit "I care about my lifestyle more than my child".

Most kinds of proposed financial relief for home buyers - tax and fee reductions or exemptions, grants, special savings programs, use of tax-sheltered savings, etc - are demand-side and will tend to inflate home prices.

Example:

- "Let's see. I can bid up to $1.2M for a home, given the taxes and fees I will also have to pay."

- New programs which remove/reduce taxes and fees by approximately $50K are introduced.

- "Let's see. I can bid up to $1.25M for a home, given the taxes and fees I will also have to pay."
 
We’ve seen an influx of Indians as well. Pakistani too. Mind you they are willing to do a job most Canadians won’t do. And are pretty good at it for the most part
My street is a mix. Several Indian families. Two across the street are doctors. The one to my left is a software engineer who came from the US after his family getting yelled at in Burger King in North Carolina. He tried Texas first and moved to NC. Then came here.

These people are all net bonuses.

They all seem very family oriented and have had no issues doing the things we all do. Halloween, street parties etc. Their kids go to the same school as every other kid on the street and they are regularly thick as thieves kicking balls in to my yard or offering their services to rake my lawn (being little kids they are so so at it) for a loonie (I offered double lol).
 
No it isn’t. They have below replacement rate births and has been declining over years?

None of the above. We can be more creative than the two scenarios that you propose.

Demographically the US is better off than Canada and most other G nations.

What other ideas can you think of?
 
Well let's face it, no one can make a living serving coffee for 10+ years at tims. It's an entry level job but it's also a job that it seems like many younger canadaians see as beneath them. As a result foreign labour takes the jobs people here don't want.
Anecdotal but I do a lot of student hiring. It is amazing how many 17 to 22 year olds have little to no paid work experience, lots of student activities, volunteering and sports though. I directed my coordinator to take a close look at the CVs that had McDonald’s, Tim’s etc (one girl was a cleaning lady in a building from age 16 to present at 21). When I got the the “why” look I said that these are the types of students we want. no work is beneath them and they are showing initiative and demonstrating that they can show up on time and work longer than a few months on end all while getting their education.
 
Demographically the US is better off than Canada and most other G nations.

What other ideas can you think of?
First would be to ensure our facts are straight. The ME is not the biggest source of immmigrants despite what some think. India definitely is.


We can certainly reduce the numbers but significant numbers are still needed.

The current merit based system is actually quite effective. What needs addressing is the professional gate keepers that are keeping foreign credentials from be properly exploited. Keep focusing on economic migrants and skilled labour.

Right hand needs to talk to the left on credentials, housing, planning etc. We can’t just have these things in silos.
 
fertility in Canada is somewhere around 1.33 and 1.6 in the US but these are 2022 numbers so probably a little worse now. So the US is a little better off on that alone
 
I don't doubt we have a segment in our society that needs to have their attitudes adjusted. I also know, anecdotally, of parents whose teenage kids can't get part time jobs either. Lots of resumes and applications, no call backs.

And my observation we long time workers, not some teenager. The manager at CT I had been dealing with since we bought our house about 15 years ago, and since before the store moved from Clayton Park to Bayer's Lake.

I dunno maybe it's just coincidence and these people all just moved on...
Reminds me of a Tin Hortons owner I spoke to in rural alberta who once all said and done spent about 20k to bring a TFW from Dubai. I asked why not just take that 20k and make your starting wage $17 an hour as it clearly wouldn't affect your bottom line. Response I got was locals didn't want the work, I felt that answer was a cop out and lazy. Especially blocks away from a university.
 
Reminds me of a Tin Hortons owner I spoke to in rural alberta who once all said and done spent about 20k to bring a TFW from Dubai. I asked why not just take that 20k and make your starting wage $17 an hour as it clearly wouldn't affect your bottom line. Response I got was locals didn't want the work, I felt that answer was a cop out and lazy. Especially blocks away from a university.
If he filled out a Local Market Impact Assessment with the federal government and received approval, he was probably getting $3/Hour for approved TFW.
 
Reminds me of a Tin Hortons owner I spoke to in rural alberta who once all said and done spent about 20k to bring a TFW from Dubai. I asked why not just take that 20k and make your starting wage $17 an hour as it clearly wouldn't affect your bottom line. Response I got was locals didn't want the work, I felt that answer was a cop out and lazy. Especially blocks away from a university.

I think you're probably right.
 
- jobs need workers. Workers are people who can do and are willing to the jobs asked of them. Workers also need to live where the jobs are.

Right.

16 per cent of the business of my former job classification was confined to 243 square miles of Ontario.

Members may consider "doing a lateral" to another municipality with a lower call volume and lower cost for housing.
 
It’s no secret that many companies are opting to hire cheap, harder working TFWs in lieu of domestic youth part time workers. That’s what we have seen happen at our local gas stations, fast food restaurants and Canadian Tires.

That the government allowed this to happen is a bigger scandal. I’m not convinced all the young people in Canada find those jobs beneath them. They may find the wage being offered unsustainable, but I believe they would work in those jobs if they were offered a fair wage (fair to the worker AND the employer).
 
Our ratepayers association is still fighting the "scourge" of sidewalks.
In a town in northern BC many years ago, me and some friends were walking home from the bar one winter’s night when a Mountie stopped us.

“Why are you guys walking on the street?”

“There’s no sidewalk and there’s 3 feet of snow.”

“Good point. Sorry to bother you.”
 
It’s no secret that many companies are opting to hire cheap, harder working TFWs in lieu of domestic youth part time workers. That’s what we have seen happen at our local gas stations, fast food restaurants and Canadian Tires.

That the government allowed this to happen is a bigger scandal. I’m not convinced all the young people in Canada find those jobs beneath them. They may find the wage being offered unsustainable, but I believe they would work in those jobs if they were offered a fair wage (fair to the worker AND the employer).
A huge number of high school students here could not find a summer job. Better a TFW who will work long hours, than a kid that has to balance school, homework and other activities.
 
In a town in northern BC many years ago, me and some friends were walking home from the bar one winter’s night when a Mountie stopped us.

“Why are you guys walking on the street?”

“There’s no sidewalk and there’s 3 feet of snow.”

“Good point. Sorry to bother you.”

There might be an element of "rural cosplay" with our ratepayers association.

They may figure keeping the lawns and trees "sidewalk free" makes the area seem "semi-rural". < smile

"We have a beautiful, natural neighborhood and now they want to citify it."
 
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