2025 India / Pakistan war
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HavokFour
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Wonder how long until we see the same for India, with Pakistan gathering their pocket sun committee.
Quirky
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Afghanistan close their airspace too?
Not sure? But with Pakistani airspace closed, there’s probably nowhere to go over Afghanistan. To the east you get into the Tibetan Plateau, average altitude something like 14k’ above sea level. Commercial air usually avoids it, not as much altitude to work with in emergencies.
Trump claims the U.S. has helped broker a “full and immediate ceasefire”.
www.bbc.com
Donald Trump says Pakistan and India have agreed 'full and immediate ceasefire'
Pakistan's deputy prime minister says they have agreed to a ceasefire with immediate effect, India are yet to comment.
www.bbc.com
HavokFour
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Trump claims the U.S. has helped broker a “full and immediate ceasefire”.
Donald Trump says Pakistan and India have agreed 'full and immediate ceasefire'
Pakistan's deputy prime minister says they have agreed to a ceasefire with immediate effect, India are yet to comment.
It sounds like it's already been broken. Incoming drones and shelling from Pakistan.
PrairieFella
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Well that was quick. Any source on that?
I think the 24 hour rule applies on a standing basis to this whole conflict. Lots of delay in reporting, lots of questionable info.
HavokFour
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Not too many sources yet, hoping we start seeing some more reputable OSINT sources appear if this conflict is going to go on for a while.
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India-Pakistan LIVE Updates: Pakistan violates ceasefire, loud explosions heard in Srinagar, Jammu and Kashmir
India-Pakistan LIVE Updates: India carried out retaliatory strikes early Saturday, targeting Islamabad, Lahore, Rawalpindi, and three Air Force bases, according to defence sources.
www.firstpost.com
And this from the Chief Minister of Jammu & Kashmir.
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HavokFour
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Reuters is picking up the story now.
Blasts heard in Indian Kashmir hours after India-Pakistan ceasefire announcement, minister says
Alt: https://archive.is/VYHZy
EDIT: BBC confirms something is happening.
www.bbc.com
Alt: https://archive.is/5Zw9K
Blasts heard in Indian Kashmir hours after India-Pakistan ceasefire announcement, minister says
Alt: https://archive.is/VYHZy
EDIT: BBC confirms something is happening.
India and Pakistan agree to ceasefire after days of cross-border strikes - latest
Pakistan's airspace is fully restored for all flights, as India says fighting stopped at 17:00 local time (12:30 BST).
www.bbc.com
Alt: https://archive.is/5Zw9K
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Full disclosure. I'm of Indian descent. And I think this should be absolutely embarrassing for India.
The way this has played out for India has been absolutely devastating. If this happened with any Western military, there would be many firings, forced retirements and hearings. Yet, in India? "Losses are part of war.". Losing several percentage points of a force, and possibly 10% of your most modern fleet, in one raid, is not normal. Even for war.
Let's go over what happened here:
They gave the Pakistanis diplomatic warning that kinetic strikes were imminent. No deception plan. Launched from within range of Pakistani AEW. So the Pakistanis were ready for them.
They used unencrypted comms. That's how the Pakistanis got recordings of Indian comms. So probably no emissions control plan or communications plan. Looks like they didn't have/use Datalink either. By comparison Datalink has bee na theatre entry standard for Western coalitions.
The Indians don't seem to have had enough of their own AEW or their Rafales wouldn't have been hit with a tail chase missile (based on damage seen). Which means no warning. Which also means their radar warning receivers might not have been properly programmed. So not if supporting assets and very likely a poor EW enterprise.
These guys would have lost a fight with F-22s and F-35s with that kind of poor tactics and strategy.
It gets worse. China and Pakistan both now know that the Indian military fights like it's the 80s, despite having newer kit. They will be even more emboldened now. However, instead of introspection at what should be seen as a massive strategic blunder, lots of Indians are chest thumping about blowing up a few buildings in Pakistan, while losing a billion dollars worth of assets and exposing their rear to the world. This is not a culture that lends itself to learning and improvement. And a good part of the reason why they got to where they are today is because they don't seem to have learned anything from 2019.
For the rest of us, I fear this only makes conflict and escalation more likely. The Chinese are very likely to be even more successful proliferating their aircraft, their AAMs and their IADS gear after this.
OldSolduer
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I work with both Indians and Pakistanis. There is no animosity between them.
In fact - I don't mind being a "Minority" around them. They are good workers, smart (most of them) and if you treat them with respect you get it back tenfold.
In fact - I don't mind being a "Minority" around them. They are good workers, smart (most of them) and if you treat them with respect you get it back tenfold.
Diasporas get along everywhere. That has very little to do with the geopolitics of their home countries.
Pakistan is a country that is literally owned by its army. Peace, for them, means the end of their gravy train. They are very much incentivized to keep up the instability. They did it in Afghanistan when they could mooch off Western aid. And now they are back to antagonizing India, which lets them make excuses to mooch off their own citizens again.
On the other side, India has a jingoistic government leading a population that is growing more nationalistic, that sees war and belligerence as a way to win votes. Very much USA circa 2002 run up to Iraq invasion.
This is not a stable setup for the region. And the the fact that their nukes are minutes from each other's capitals and major centres makes it bad for the rest of us too.
My parents (minority Christians) saw the rhetoric and jingoism growing in India, in the 80s and chose to move to Canada, instead of going back to India from the Middle East. Unfortunately, all this has been brewing a long time over there.
On actual military stuff, I will say, it's been enlightening to see the public reactions in those countries. I hope we never end up in a place where our political leaders and society unquestioningly accept military losses, for nothing more than virtue signaling (and that too badly executed). I'm glad to live in a country where, despite all gripes, more is demanded of our public servants and politicians. Our Civic and Strategic cultures are unquestionably better.
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