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26 Aug 2016: "Canada Buys Blackjack Unmanned Aircraft System from United States"

The Bread Guy

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George Wallace said:
I see a lot of RCR VOTs going in.
That's the closest to a "seal" I can do on the web site I typically used - it DOES channel the "RCR Star" doesn't it?
 

PuckChaser

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Chris Pook said:
About Army types looking at stowing stuff in ships. 

Sailors seem to manage to figure out how to pack an incredible amount of gear into a tight space.  For starters they look up and check for bulkheads and deckheads to which things can be attached.  And they are more inclined to stow gear when not in use.  Another common characteristic I have seen is padeyes welded to the deckheads so that gear can be moved by an overhead route.  Just saying - sailors seem to be more aware of the full 3D space and how it might be exploited.

Have you seen what can be stored in a AFV/LAV6? Even in my Bison, every space that was useable, was used. Hard Army types definitely are used to filling that 3D space...
 

Kirkhill

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PuckChaser said:
Have you seen what can be stored in a AFV/LAV6? Even in my Bison, every space that was useable, was used. Hard Army types definitely are used to filling that 3D space...

Yah, but sailors did it first and better!    [:D  :cheers:
 

Edward Campbell

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Continuing the warship UAV derailment  :highjack:  what about the Elbit Skylark C for the Kingston class ships?

If we procure a fleet of corvettes because we need 20+ ships but the NSPS will only fund 15 then I'm confident that the naval architects can come up with a solution that either carriers our new helicopter or has an appropriate UAV. But until someone makes that decision we have the Kingston class and if it will need to be life extended into the 2040s then maybe a "mini-drone" can be fitted and add some capability.

         
elbitsystemsskylark.jpg

                                            If it will fit on what looks like a glorified RHIB then I cannot imagine that a MCDV is too small
 

Cloud Cover

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George Wallace said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OhWgvlCcgo

It appears that the launch rail could be modified to a extendable rail and then add in a hinge and pin system to fold it in half. Single use only, actual use may void the warranty!!
 

Ostrozac

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Colin P said:
Welcome to Canada's first UAV Carrier

Scaneagle has been flying off Halifax class for a while now, and I expect Blackjack will follow suit both with Halifax class and the replacement ships.

Honestly, the SUAV projects (both Scaneagle and Blackjack) have been a bit of a success story, especially when compared to many of our other procurements.
 

dimsum

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Ostrozac said:
Honestly, the SUAV projects (both Scaneagle and Blackjack) have been a bit of a success story, especially when compared to many of our other procurements.

Agreed.  While the RCAF is dithering (for whatever reason) on the JUSTAS program, the Army/Navy have just sat in the shadows and done the job.
 

Kirkhill

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Dimsum said:
Agreed.  While the RCAF is dithering (for whatever reason) on the JUSTAS program, the Army/Navy have just sat in the shadows and done the job.

Maybe the JUSTAS mission should be handed over to this mob:

http://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/satellites/

Give the satellite OPs on routine patrol their own recce capability to conduct timely investigations and fill in gaps in the coverage created by time, space and circumstances.  And leave it out of the military's hands entirely.

The military then becomes a client but the service can be employed internationally as a domestic, a strategic and a diplomatic asset.
 

dimsum

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Chris Pook said:
Maybe the JUSTAS mission should be handed over to this mob:

http://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/satellites/

Give the satellite OPs on routine patrol their own recce capability to conduct timely investigations and fill in gaps in the coverage created by time, space and circumstances.  And leave it out of the military's hands entirely.

The military then becomes a client but the service can be employed internationally as a domestic, a strategic and a diplomatic asset.
.

If the only mission was surveillance, maybe.  However, one of the main caveats was a targeting and strike capability.
 

Kirkhill

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In which case we buy some for the civvies to fly unarmed and some for the uniforms to fly armed.  Do you need a uniform to fly a UAV?  Or even launch a Hellfire?
 

dimsum

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Chris Pook said:
In which case we buy some for the civvies to fly unarmed and some for the uniforms to fly armed.  Do you need a uniform to fly a UAV?  Or even launch a Hellfire?

I think that would start delving into LOAC and other legal matters.  I, for one, would be a little hesistant to use a civie, even one with security clearance, to fire weapons - imagine the crapstorm that would happen if Mr. So-and-So was at the controls when the wrong target got hit instead of Capt (or Sgt) So-and-so. 

Also, using that line of thinking, when do you switch from the civies to the uniforms if a situation starts looking like it'll be going kinetic?  Does it mean there's a "standby" crew of uniformed pers in that case?  If you're suggesting a completely separate fleet, then do we hand off to another UAV when things are looking like they'll go kinetic?  How would any of those situations save on pers or airframes?

Those are just easy examples off the top of my head - I'm sure it can go much murkier.
 

Ostrozac

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Chris Pook said:
Do you need a uniform to fly a UAV?  Or even launch a Hellfire?

The CIA would argue that you do not, and that they have fifteen years of operational experience proving that a uniform is not required to conduct UAV reconnaissance/strike missions.

Of course, just because the CIA does it doesn't mean that CSIS will or should do it. But uniforms aren't made of magic fabric -- leadership, training, equipment and policy are the key elements of a UAV operation, not how the operators are dressed.
 

Kirkhill

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I see the legal points - going the CIA/Blackwater routes is not a preferred outcome.

I was thinking more along the lines of the risk factors, mean the risks that the "flyers" take: flyers meaning in this case any or all of: the pilot in the cockpit, the operator in the control centre or the mission programmer.

Surveillance by satellite can augmented by UAVs, either loitering or tasked to conduct a site-specific reconnaissance without having to put Gary Powers at risk.  All of that, I think, could be kept in civilian hands. 

You're right.  It does make sense to keep the armed missions under military control and performed by uniformed personnel.  But where are those personnel located, and what risks are they undertaking?

Some locations I can think of include:

On an open hillside
In the back of a LAV
In a Griffon
In a Frigate
In a CP-140
In an F-35
In a SeaCan in an undisclosed location
In Ottawa.

If I understand the modern connected world then somebody on or in any of those platforms can get imagery from all of the other platforms, plus unmanned ones, and launch weapons, on their own volition, from any other location.  That assumes permissions of course but that is a matter of "may I?" and not "can I?"

 

The Bread Guy

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Necro-bump with the latest ....
Insitu was awarded a $390.4 million contract to supply Blackjack drones for the U.S. Marine Corps and U.S. Navy, as well as Blackjacks and smaller ScanEagle unmanned air vehicles, for three foreign allies.

The contract, announced Friday by the Department of Defense, covers 63 RQ-21A Blackjack attrition air vehicles for the U.S. military branches, plus six RQ-21A unmanned aircraft systems and 17 Blackjack air vehicles for Canada, Poland and Oman under foreign military sales. The contract also includes 93 ScanEagle unmanned aircraft systems "in various configurations,"

The deal will include training, testing and engineering, operations support, maintenance and other services, Pentagon said.

Eight-three percent of the work will be performed at Insitu's plant in Bingen, Wash., with 5 percent at various locations into the continental United States and 12 percent outside. Work is expected to be completed in June 2022 ...
More @ link
 
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