6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[RangerRay]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/capitol-riot-police-injuries-trauma/2021/07/23/e008f0f0-d8d8-11eb-9bbb-37c30dcf9363_story.html

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Gonna be pretty damned hard to fight most of these charges given the ludicrous amount of video there is. Pretty much anyone who is positively IDed as having been inside the Capitol during the days events is hooped on something.

From the article I linked above:



Those heavier sets of charges will be interesting to watch.

I also wonder, as sentences begin to get handed out and it dawns on those still to come that they're probably going to prison, some for quite a while, I fear we'll see some real 'come and get me' stupidity from a few of the diehards. There will be some utterly unrepentant and utterly unwilling to face accountability for their choices and actions. Some of them will be armed, and unstable...

I get news articles that many are still being held and in solitary. Certainly they seem to be much more eager to prosecute these people than the rioters in other cites.

 

[mariomike]

Certainly they seem to be much more eager to prosecute these people than the rioters in other cites.

What would the Republican reaction be if the Capitol "tourists" were Black?

 

[Altair]

What would the Republican reaction be if the Capitol "tourists" were Black?

body bags.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

What would the Republican reaction be if the Capitol "tourists" were Black?

Some of them were.

 

[Remius]

I get news articles that many are still being held and in solitary. Certainly they seem to be much more eager to prosecute these people than the rioters in other cites.

Not really. Some reading below.

America's protest crackdown: five months after George Floyd, hundreds face trials and prison

Some protesters face stacked charges and threats of deportation; others have been charged with police assault with no reports of injuries

www.theguardian.com

How arrests in the Capitol riot compare to that of Black Lives Matter protests - The Boston Globe

See how the arrest numbers from Wednesday’s insurrection and similarly themed MAGA rallies compare to Black Lives Matter demonstrations this year.

www.bostonglobe.com

2 Black Lives Matter demonstrators are facing life in prison. Experts say the 'deeply disturbing' potential sentences are an 'unprecedented' form of government overreach.

The Department of Justice said on Thursday that more than 300 people across 29 states had been charged with federal crimes connected to protests.

www.insider.com

AP tally: Arrests at widespread US protests hit 10,000

PHOENIX (AP) — More than 10,000 people have been arrested in protests decrying racism and police brutality in the wake of George Floyd's death, according to an Associated Press tally of known arrests across the U.S.

apnews.com

Protesters in Multiple States Are Facing Felony Charges, Including Terrorism

In the wake of nationwide protests in support of black lives, some states have increased the severity of criminal penalties for protesters.

theintercept.com

 

[brihard]

I get news articles that many are still being held and in solitary. Certainly they seem to be much more eager to prosecute these people than the rioters in other cites.

Well, bear in mind first that the US has at least fifty one criminal justice systems. Each state has their own, then there’s the feds. The investigation and prosecution of the Jan 6th insurrection is, of course, a federal matter.

Now I can obviously hardly be accused of sympathy with rioters and with those who commit acts of violence. With that firmly in mind, I personally think it’s a way bigger deal to forcibly disrupt the peaceful transition of power in an attempt to usurp a democratic election than it is to take to the streets causing some havoc in the cause du jour. I argue that the protection of the institution of democracy necessitates and justifies aggressively identifying and prosecuting all of those who breached the Capitol to try to stop (and successfully delayed) the counting of the electoral votes. That was a blow to the heart of democracy that smashing windows and burning a few cars over a police shooting simply is not. The feds are quite rightly intent achieving denunciation and deterrence.

I would have this opinion regardless of which party was transitioning to which, so long as the fact set remained that of a violent riot attempting to prevent the counting of the electoral votes by storming the Capitol.

 

[mariomike]

What would the Republican reaction be if the Capitol "tourists" were Black?

Some of them were.

Looks like a lot of White dudes.

capitol rioters pictures - Google Search

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well, bear in mind first that the US has at least fifty one criminal justice systems. Each state has their own, then there’s the feds. The investigation and prosecution of the Jan 6th insurrection is, of course, a federal matter.

Now I can obviously hardly be accused of sympathy with rioters and with those who commit acts of violence. With that firmly in mind, I personally think it’s a way bigger deal to forcibly disrupt the peaceful transition of power in an attempt to usurp a democratic election than it is to take to the streets causing some havoc in the cause du jour. I argue that the protection of the institution of democracy necessitates and justifies aggressively identifying and prosecuting all of those who breached the Capitol to try to stop (and successfully delayed) the counting of the electoral votes. That was a blow to the heart of democracy that smashing windows and burning a few cars over a police shooting simply is not. The feds are quite rightly intent achieving denunciation and deterrence.

I would have this opinion regardless of which party was transitioning to which, so long as the fact set remained that of a violent riot attempting to prevent the counting of the electoral votes by storming the Capitol.

Other than a few people, I don't think many of them expected to get as far as they did and that played out with their basically wandering around and taking selfies. I never seen this event as a fundamental threat, and frankly what the politicians got was a taste of what the victims of the rioters have been living with for months. My sympathy is limited. Keep in mind that the possibility of a armed revolt is baked into their system as a final option once all other means are exhausted, that's a feature and not a bug. I think that is a hard concept for us "Loyalists" to wrap our heads around.

Personally I find the loss of law and order at the street level far more dangerous to democracy than a horn wearing shaman sittings in the speakers chair for a bit. You find this interesting, although likely not surprising Black Detroit Residents Far More Worried About Crime Than Police Reform

 

[QV]

Well, bear in mind first that the US has at least fifty one criminal justice systems. Each state has their own, then there’s the feds. The investigation and prosecution of the Jan 6th insurrection is, of course, a federal matter.

Now I can obviously hardly be accused of sympathy with rioters and with those who commit acts of violence. With that firmly in mind, I personally think it’s a way bigger deal to forcibly disrupt the peaceful transition of power in an attempt to usurp a democratic election than it is to take to the streets causing some havoc in the cause du jour. I argue that the protection of the institution of democracy necessitates and justifies aggressively identifying and prosecuting all of those who breached the Capitol to try to stop (and successfully delayed) the counting of the electoral votes. That was a blow to the heart of democracy that smashing windows and burning a few cars over a police shooting simply is not. The feds are quite rightly intent achieving denunciation and deterrence.

I would have this opinion regardless of which party was transitioning to which, so long as the fact set remained that of a violent riot attempting to prevent the counting of the electoral votes by storming the Capitol.

"Insurrection"

 

[Remius]

"Insurrection"

It’s pretty much what the whole world except Trump supporters have been calling it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Justice must be seen to be done, as well as done. Overdone, it can look like injustice. Doesn't matter what it is; matters what it looks like.

Pointless to have doctrines of tolerating riots in progress in order to avoid further inciting mobs, and then turn a relatively harmless shit-show - irrespective of how it offended people outraged by the insult to solemn sacred processes and traditions - into a punishment parade. Most of the reputational damage to institutions continues to be done by the people who think they are defending the institutions.

 

[QV]

It’s pretty much what the whole world except Trump supporters have been calling it.

I suppose if you unconditionally believe the media and their handlers. Gaslight much?

This had to be the most peaceful one day "insurrection" in history, I mean the insurrectionists weren't even armed. Or maybe you're confusing this with the entire summer of "mostly peaceful" riots where violent, armed thugs were burning, looting and assaulting federal and other buildings trying to burn the police inside alive? Compare lives lost and property damage to the two. Can't even compare.

It amazes me how so many people swallow the BS whole. The CNN stream talking about the mostly peaceful riots as the city block burned in the background vs some nut wearing viking horns taking over the worlds most powerful nation... epic examples of the media spin.

 

[Remius]

I suppose if you unconditionally believe the media and their handlers. Gaslight much?

This had to be the most peaceful one day "insurrection" in history, I mean the insurrectionists weren't even armed. Or maybe you're confusing this with the entire summer of "mostly peaceful" riots where violent, armed thugs were burning, looting and assaulting federal and other buildings trying to burn the police inside alive? Compare lives lost and property damage to the two. Can't even compare.

It amazes me how so many people swallow the BS whole. The CNN stream talking about the mostly peaceful riots as the city block burned in the background vs some nut wearing viking horns taking over the worlds most powerful nation... epic examples of the media spin.

I don’t follow conspiracy theories. If you think jan 6th was peaceful there isn’t much I, or anyone else can convince you of. I hope all responsible are made examples of. One down with 8 months in jail, more to go.

im not confusing anything. I’m rational enough to accept that both are wrong. But it’s plain whataboutism. Plain and simple. If you think they weren’t “armed” I think you need a crash course on what “armed” means.

 

[Altair]

I don’t follow conspiracy theories. If you think jan 6th was peaceful there isn’t much I, or anyone else can convince you of. I hope all responsible are made examples of. One down with 8 months in jail, more to go.

im not confusing anything. I’m rational enough to accept that both are wrong. But it’s plain whataboutism. Plain and simple. If you think they weren’t “armed” I think you need a crash course on what “armed” means.

Yeah, those cops being beated and maced, and assaulted were definitely not thinking this crowd was unarmed.

But at the end of the day, like everything else in America, its polarized.

 

[QV]

I don’t follow conspiracy theories. If you think jan 6th was peaceful there isn’t much I, or anyone else can convince you of. I hope all responsible are made examples of. One down with 8 months in jail, more to go.

im not confusing anything. I’m rational enough to accept that both are wrong. But it’s plain whataboutism. Plain and simple. If you think they weren’t “armed” I think you need a crash course on what “armed” means.

So the Antifa/BLM riots of 2020 is all just a conspiracy theory now. Quit acting like the actions of a few loons on one day was anything meaningful compared what had already gone on the entire previous summer. You're right about one thing; both are wrong. Where you err is thinking they are even remotely comparable.

 

[QV]

Yeah, those cops being beated and maced, and assaulted were definitely not thinking this crowd was unarmed.

But at the end of the day, like everything else in America, its polarized.

Compare Jan 6th with the summer of riots. You won't because it goes against your confirmation bias.

 

[Altair]

Compare Jan 6th with the summer of riots. You won't because it goes against your confirmation bias.

Fine, lets compare.

One was a deliberate attempt to target politicians and overturn a election, the other was a riots and property damage.

A deliberate attempt to overturn a election is a insurrection, the other is public disorder.

There, done.

 

[quadrapiper]

I don’t follow conspiracy theories. If you think jan 6th was peaceful there isn’t much I, or anyone else can convince you of. I hope all responsible are made examples of. One down with 8 months in jail, more to go.

im not confusing anything. I’m rational enough to accept that both are wrong. But it’s plain whataboutism. Plain and simple. If you think they weren’t “armed” I think you need a crash course on what “armed” means.

Street riots are a rash: thoroughly nasty, potentially symptoms of some deeper problem, but usually not particularly deadly. A situation where a reasonably well-resourced, bad at INFOSEC, not sufficiently heavily armed or numerous to be fundamentally unstoppable, horde of idiots, cosplayers, and would-be murderers and kidnappers are able to amble into the capital city, then storm the Capitol like rats into a restaurant dumpster without being stopped at any point in the process, then leave town at their leisure is a cancer, or a deeply-embedded fungal infection. You're going to die if you don't fix this.

Having the senior layers of government either apparently happy to see this sort of thing happen, or so tied up in perceived or actual requirements to seek guidance before acting, isn't particularly encouraging.

 

[Remius]

So the Antifa/BLM riots of 2020 is all just a conspiracy theory now. Quit acting like the actions of a few loons on one day was anything meaningful compared what had already gone on the entire previous summer. You're right about one thing; both are wrong. Where you err is thinking they are even remotely comparable.

No that isn’t what I said or meant but keep driving that narrative. YOU made the comparison.

quit minimizing what happened. A few loons? They were mostly loons. And there will be a few more than just a few going to jail. Hopefully for a long time. Good riddance.