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7-8 July 2016: Sharpshooter kills 5 cops @ Dallas protest

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jollyjacktar

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Motor mouths like him should be charged with inciting violence if they stick one toe over the line.

mariomike said:
Another long hot summer in the cities.

They say our 9-1-1 services are one,

8 Jul 2016
Today from the African American Defense League, "As you fight, remember that the FIREMAN and the POLICE are on the SAME SIDE! Don't be fooled!" Dr. Mauricelm-Lei Millere, African American Defense League - Organization for Afro-American Unity 2016. Join!"
https://www.facebook.com/aadlafricanamericandefenseleague/

That is one reason ( I read years ago that it was the main reason. ) city firefighters don't ride to calls on the back steps of their trucks anymore.

Two days ago a guy plead guilty to puncturing a fire hose during the Baltimore riots.

July 8, 2016
In the US, big city paramedics are fire-based. Today a 15-year-old perp was taken away in handcuffs after he shot a BB gun out of his third-floor window and wounded a FDNY EMT on a call in the Bronx.
http://bronx.news12.com/news/emt-recovers-at-hospital-after-being-shot-by-bb-gun-1.12021028
 
J

jollyjacktar

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Yes, on both sides of the colour spectrum.  They should all get slammed hard if they cross the line.
 

mariomike

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Dallas Police Officer with gunshot wound had to wait in restaurant for 25 minutes because there were no ambulances.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20160708-drama-at-the-palm-staff-diner-tend-to-wounded-officer.ece

Dallas police may be first U.S. law enforcement agency to use a robot to kill a suspect
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20160708-dallas-police-may-be-first-u.s.-law-enforcement-agency-to-use-a-robot-to-kill-a-suspect.ece

Police targeted in Tennessee, Georgia & Missouri.
http://nypost.com/2016/07/08/cops-targeted-in-attacks-in-several-states/

 

Lightguns

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On an analytical side, anyone seen the shooters advance on the officer behind the column?  What did you think of his technique?  He seemed better trained in firearms than the average PFC, Carpentry and Masonry.
 

Cloud Cover

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Seemed blurry to me so can't comment. But I felt chills when you could hear the double tap shots to the head, and then 3 more when the officer was face down on the ground. Thank good ness Texas is a death penalty state. I hope justice is swift.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Lightguns said:
On an analytical side, anyone seen the shooters advance on the officer behind the column?  What did you think of his technique?  He seemed better trained in firearms than the average PFC, Carpentry and Masonry.

I watched it yesterday before they released names.  I thought right away, this guy is military or ex-military and that it wasn't his first rodeo.

He served in Afghanistan as a Police Trainer.  A lot of American units got repurposed as infantry for the war.

He simply overwhelmed that police officer with suppressive fire, movement  and shock action.  It will unfortunately now end up being footage in a tactical training video.

It's why yesterday I said there was probably only one shooter which has now been confirmed to be the case, the guy was bounding to different firing positions. 


Edit:

I watched a documentary a few years ago which I will post a link to.  It talks about gang infiltration in to the US military which is becoming a major concern for LEO in the US.  You put +1 million people, recruited from the poorest 40% of society in to war zones for 15+ years and this was bound to happen.

https://youtu.be/g_ToQ-05s2Y
 

Lightguns

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Humphrey Bogart said:
I watched it yesterday before they released names.  I thought right away, this guy is military or ex-military and that it wasn't his first rodeo.

He served in Afghanistan as a Police Trainer.  A lot of American units got repurposed as infantry for the war.

He simply overwhelmed that police officer with suppressive fire, movement  and shock action.  It will unfortunately now end up being footage in a tactical training video.

It's why yesterday I said there was probably only one shooter which has now been confirmed to be the case, the guy was bounding to different firing positions.

My thoughts exactly.  Being an old artillery guy that spend his last decade in an HQ, I didn't want to take the lead with more knowledgeable folks on the thread.  I was not aware of the re-roling.  Sadly, yes, it will be a training video and more sadly, but logically, police forces, continent wide, will up their tactical game and the "Left" will scream louder about the militarization of police. 
 

Jarnhamar

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Humphrey Bogart said:
He simply overwhelmed that police officer with suppressive fire, movement  and shock action.  It will unfortunately now end up being footage in a tactical training video.

I wonder if police training ever encompasses the trainee/officer being on the defense or trying to break contact.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Lightguns said:
My thoughts exactly.  Being an old artillery guy that spend his last decade in an HQ, I didn't want to take the lead with more knowledgeable folks on the thread.  I was not aware of the re-roling.  Sadly, yes, it will be a training video and more sadly, but logically, police forces, continent wide, will up their tactical game and the "Left" will scream louder about the militarization of police.

Yep, it's clear that frontline police need additional tactical training for situations like this.  With so much other training required, how do you fit it all in?

I had deja vu of Moncton and Parliament Hill watching this.  All of the same problems, comms breakdown, outgunned, lack of SA.  Ottawa was very lucky that day.  If it were someone with training, it would have been a lot worse.

As Hamish Seggie said, that wasn't policing, that was war.

Jarnhamar said:
I wonder if police training ever encompasses the trainee/officer being on the defense or trying to break contact.

No idea, that was a near ambush though.  With the officer also being heavily outgunned. 
 

Brad Sallows

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>This is a time of tragedy not a time to score political/social points.

Every tragedy is a time to score political/social points.  The US president has set that tone.
 
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jollyjacktar

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Cloud Cover said:
Seemed blurry to me so can't comment. But I felt chills when you could hear the double tap shots to the head, and then 3 more when the officer was face down on the ground. Thank good ness Texas is a death penalty state. I hope justice is swift.

You could  say that justice was swift.  They took him out with an explosive device delivered by their bomb squad robot.  I like it when these shitheads don't survive the encounter.
 

mariomike

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Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I can tell from this source and others, Dallas was the deadliest gun battle for police in America since 1932.
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/here-are-the-deadliest-attacks-on-cops-in-the-last-100-years

 

a_majoor

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While I in no way endorse BLM, race baiting politicians, its heated rhetoric or the inevitable outcome, I suggest that US policing also needs a very thorough rethink (and not some fuzzy headed executive order from the White hHouse trying to substitute magical thinking for a solution).

The reality is that in some parts of the United States, the Police have become both militarized and have also become far less accountable to the public. The shootings of people may or may not have been justified, but the overall trend has been portrayed as both police becoming more prone to use force (no knock raids are a huge example), while at the same time, police officers are generally exonerated when they do use deadly force on a civilian (the FBI has an incredible 100% record of exonerating agents from 1993-2011, during which time they shot and killed 70 people and shot and injured 80 more, with no findings of improper intentional shootings).

So a large part of the problem is the perception that Police have essentially become an occupying army rather than the guardians of the public order, which leads us into a 4GW solution:

4th Generation Warfare Handbook

In Fourth Generation warfare, the weak often have more moral power than the strong. One of the first people to employ the power of weakness was Mahatma Gandhi. Gandhi’s insistence on non-violent tactics to defeat the British in India was and continues to be a classic strategy of Fourth Generation war. When the British responded to Indian independence rallies with violence, they immediately lost the moral war.

Operations David and Goliath show a strong military force, with almost no limits on the amount of violence it can apply to a situation, versus a very weak irregular force. The weaker force has the moral high ground because it is so weak. No one likes bullies using their physical superiority in order to win at anything, and unless we are extremely careful in how we apply our physical combat power, we soon come across as a bully, i.e. Goliath.

Most important, we see the central role of de-escalation. In most Fourth Generation situations, our best hope of winning lies not in escalation but in de-escalation (the “Hama model” discussed in the next chapter relies on escalation, but political factors will usually rule this approach out). De-escalation is how police are trained to handle confrontations. From a policeman’s perspective, escalation is almost always undesirable. If a police officer escalates a situation, he may even find himself charged with a crime. This reflects society’s desire for less, not more, violence. Most people in foreign societies share this desire. They will not welcome foreigners who increase the level of violence around them.

For state militaries in Fourth Generation situations, the policeman is a more appropriate model than the soldier. Soldiers are taught that, if they are not achieving the result they want, they should escalate: call in more troops, more firepower, tanks, artillery, and air support. In this respect, men in state-armed forces may find their own training for war against other state-armed forces works against them. They must realize that in Fourth Generation war, escalation almost always works to the advantage of their opponents. We cannot stress this point too strongly. State militaries must develop a “de-escalation mindset,” along with supporting tactics and techniques.

There may be situations where escalation on the tactical level is necessary to obtain de-escalation on the operational and strategic levels. In such situations, state-armed forces may want to have a special unit, analogous to a police SWAT team, that appears quickly, uses the necessary violence, then quickly disappears. This helps the state servicemen with whom local people normally interact to maintain their image as helpful friends.

Proportionality is another requirement if state militaries want to avoid being seen as bullies. Using tanks, airpower, and artillery against lightly armed guerrillas not only injures and kills innocent civilians and destroys civilian property, it also works powerfully at the moral level of war to increase sympathy for the state’s opponents. That, in turn, helps our Fourth Generation enemies gain local and international support, funding and recruits.

De-escalation and proportionality in turn require state-armed forces to be able to empathize with the local people. If they regard the local population with contempt, this contempt will carry over into their actions. Empathy cannot simply be commanded; developing it must be part of training.... Each of these points touches a central characteristic of Fourth Generation war. If we fail to understand even one of them, and act so as to contradict it, we will set ourselves up for defeat.

Remember, for any state military, Fourth Generation wars are easy to lose and very challenging to win. This is true despite the state military’s great superiority over its Fourth Generation opponents at the physical level of war. Indeed, to a significant degree, it is true because of that superiority. In most Fourth Generation wars, state-armed forces end up defeating themselves.

Note this does not say to stop enforcing the Law, and recognized and proven police tactics like "Broken Windows" is by no means contraindicated. Indeed there still is a place for SWAT/ERT "Special Forces" for high risk response, but as Lind notes, this is the option which comes out, strikes swiftly and then goes back in the box.

Doing a controlled deescalation and winning back communities will be a multi faceted program, and there will be many issues to solve, including overcoming the Ferguson Effect (Police avoid policing an area for fear of being "monday morning quarterbacked" by politicians and special interests with an axe to grind), getting rid of troublemakers who stir s**t up to provoke the police or cause an incident and media more interested in a narrative than the story. Not to mention a well grounded paranoia that there really are people out to get the police. This has retaken decades to build, so it isn't surprising that it will probably take years to steer things back on course, with many missteps on the way.
 

George Wallace

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mariomike said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I can tell from this source and others, Dallas was the deadliest gun battle for police in America since 1932.
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/here-are-the-deadliest-attacks-on-cops-in-the-last-100-years

It is debatable.  There have been quite a few over the years.  There was a couple of bank robberies in LA that created a lot of mayhem and destruction.  The Norco shootout was an armed confrontation between five heavily-armed bank robbers and deputies of the Riverside and San Bernardino County sheriff's departments in Norco, California, United States on May 9, 1980; which ended with both suspects killed, one police officer killed and nine police officers wounded.  Then there was the North Hollywood shootout, sometimes also called the Battle of North Hollywood (also made into a movie), where an armed confrontation between two heavily armed and armored bank robbers and members of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) in the North Hollywood district of Los Angeles on February 28, 1997. Both perpetrators were killed, eleven police officers and seven civilians were injured, and numerous vehicles and other property were damaged or destroyed by the approximately 1,750 rounds of ammunition fired by the robbers and police.
 

mariomike

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George Wallace said:
It is debatable. 

Not to question your post, GW, but I read this from the National Law Enforcement Museum,

"The 1932 massacre holds the record for the deadliest single law enforcement gunfight in the 20th century."
http://www.nleomf.org/museum/news/newsletters/online-insider/january-2012/young-brothers-massacre-jan-2-1932.html

 
J

jollyjacktar

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For the number of fallen since 32, then Dallas.  For intensity, North Hollywood gets my vote.
 

mariomike

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jollyjacktar said:
For intensity, North Hollywood gets my vote.

Especially during the 18 minutes before SWAT arrived.
Not sure what SWATs targeted response time is?

Trivia: SWAT originally stood for, "Special Weapons Attack Team".
The acronym was later changed to the kinder and gentler, "Special Weapons and Tactics".

( Loved the theme from SWAT when their weird station tones go off! )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAHvsCb-6vU

"THERE'S A MAN, IN A VAN, WITH A GUN IN HIS HAND CALLED SWAT!!!"  :)

Another busy Saturday night in San Antonio, Atlanta, Baton Rouge, Manhattan, Chicago, St. Paul and other cities across America.


Carmalita Jackson tells injured husband not to go with EMS as he is black and EMS is racist.
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/land-fear-home-afraid-dg/ …
Truth is, I am afraid. Petrified in fact. Our men go into the backs of large vehicles and they don’t come out alive.

Nice to see the crew got him to ER safely.

We work for you!  :)

NYC protesters chant for dead cops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8


Dallas PD
One officer later told me “I tried to tell them that we were there to protect them and the guy said, ‘Protect us hell! You guys are the targets tonight!’” and started laughing.
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/one-dallas-cops-experience-and-thoughts-on-thursday-night-8473951

 

McG

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Looks like the shooter's skills may have less to do with time as an army carpenter and something to do with a commercial tactical gun fighting school.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/dallas-gunman-learned-shooting-on-the-move-tactics-at-self-defence-school-1.2980498
 
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