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Police shoot, kill armed man outside Scarborough elementary school

daftandbarmy

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I actually cheered a little bit when I read that....

Police shoot, kill armed man outside Scarborough elementary school​


Toronto police have shot and killed an armed man following reports that he was seen carrying a rifle outside an elementary school in Scarborough’s Port Union area.

Officers received information of a man carrying a gun in the Maberley Crescent and Oxhorn Road area, near Lawrence Avenue East and Port Union Road, just before 1 p.m.

oronto Police Chief James Ramer said that responding officers were confronted by the individual, but wouldn’t detail what transpired. The Special Investigations Unit (SIU) has taken over the investigation.

In a brief statement, the SIU said two officers shot at the man, who was later pronounced dead at the scene.

The SIU is an independent government agency that investigates the conduct of police officials that may have resulted in death, serious injury, sexual assault and/or the discharge of a firearm at another person.

The police chief reiterated that there is no threat to public safety, acknowledging that officers will step up patrols in the area.

Witness Mike Grieve tells CityNews police shot an armed man roughly 100 metres from William G. Davis Junior Public School.

“I drove around the neighbourhood and heard that they were looking for someone armed with an assault rifle, and they ended up shooting him,” Grieve said in a video sent to CityNews, which shows a heavy police scene and paramedics.

William G. Davis Junior Public School, Joseph Howe Senior Public School, and Sir Oliver Mowat Collegiate Institute were all placed in lockdown as police investigated the incident.

Parents, community members left shocked: “Just glad everyone is safe”

Steve Matthews, whose son attends William G. Davis Junior Public School, was one of the first people to witness what he described as a man pacing back and forth outside the school with a gun.

“I don’t even know how I feel at this moment. Still just in shock that this could happen, but I am just glad everyone is safe,” Matthews said. “I saw a gentleman [near] school property walking with a rifle on his shoulder, pacing back and forth.”

Matthews, who was in his car at the time, said he was focused on the man’s gun. He quickly turned his vehicle around and kept an eye on him.

“I just saw that he kept pacing, so that’s when I decided to park and run inside [the school] and make sure 9-1-1 was contacted.”

Tracy, another mother who lives in the area and whose daughter, Chailyne, attends the elementary school, says she heard two gunshots.

“It’s been scary until we could pick them up,” Tracy said, adding that the current context of what happened in Uvalde, Texas, made her feel increasingly concerned.

“We were underneath the desks and just talking,” the girl explained. “We were just trying to be quiet.”

The police investigation comes after the tragic, fatal shooting of 19 children and two teachers at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, where an 18-year-old barricaded himself inside a classroom and began firing his semi-automatic rifle. Seventeen others were wounded in the shooting.

It is the third-deadliest American school shooting after the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting and the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

 

rmc_wannabe

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This was where I grew up. Fucking shocking to me to hear. I am glad the threat was neutralized, but Jesus Christ this is terrifying to think about.
 

KevinB

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Suicide by cop, maybe? Dude knew that showing up in that high density location with a long gun so soon after Texas would provoke a lethal response.
Sounds very likely at this point.
 

Eaglelord17

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From the reports I saw it said a BB gun was recovered from the scene.

Lots of unanswered questions before I start cheering.

1) Was it a real firearm?
2) Did the person actually threaten anyone or did a cop simply see someone with what appeared to be a rifle and shot (i.e. pointing it at people, screaming they were going to kill someone, or was it a rifle slung over a shoulder and a cop simply lined up at 100m and fired without even asking them to drop it, etc.)?
3) If it was shoot first ask questions later that is very chilling idea and its how innocents get killed. We had one guy a few years ago heading home at the same time as a Christmas parade bring a rifle in from his car. SWAT showed up and eventually it turned out everything was perfectly fine, but shooting first would have resulted in a citizen going about legal business being killed. It is also how children playing potentially get killed too.
4) With how tight lipped they are being with it so far it likely isn’t a good look for police as if it was a good look they would likely be sharing a lot more info.

Going to wait for more info before making full judgement and cheering as right now from what limited infornation that is available isn’t giving me the warm and fuzzies. Instead it is most likely appearing to be some poor teenager/early 20s individual committing suicide by cop.
 

OldSolduer

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I will hold my thoughts for now. Now doubt there will be backlash from the "police bad" crowd.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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1.Doesn't matter.
2.Get stuffed
3.Amazing how things work out that way in real life eh?
4. Pesky thing called "investigation "......but don't worry, doesn't appear you need anything like that to determine what happened.
 

rmc_wannabe

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@Eaglelord17 If it were your child's school, the day after Uvalde, would you want someone to take that risk?

The reports I saw were that dude was pacing the school yard, rifle in tow. Someone saw, ran into the school and got them to call 9-1-1, locked the schools down in the area, and then TPS arrived on scene. Once they located the suspect, an altercation started, and threat was neutralized.

The ONLY way I would believe TPS would have shot this person, in Suburbia, in the middle of the afternoon, is if there was a legitimate threat. At 100 meters, I can't tell if it's an AirSoft gun or if it's a real weapon capable of killing people. SIU will definitely know once their investigation is complete and we have more info. In the heat of the moment.... I would probably would have fired as well, if the scenario played out as it did.

As much as we will dissect the action of these officers in Toronto, the officers in Uvalde are being flagellated for their inaction.

There is no happy ending here, in the sense that a situation developed where people were fearful of their lives due to the actions of this suspect. Even if he was apprehended, you can't unring that bell.
 

dimsum

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t 100 meters, I can't tell if it's an AirSoft gun or if it's a real weapon capable of killing people.
Exactly. Some Airsoft guns look surprisingly like real ones, especially at that distance.

And before the "you should have shot them in the leg" crowd pipes up - the TPS officers likely only had their sidearms. How confident are you at shooting a specific body part with a 9mm pistol at 100m?
 

rmc_wannabe

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And before the "you should have shot them in the leg" crowd pipes up - the TPS officers likely only had their sidearms. How confident are you at shooting a specific body part with a 9mm pistol at 100m?
Even then, "shoot to wound" is not a thing. It hasn't been for ages. We all know EOF; if you're at the point where you have guns up, you're shooting to kill. Centre of mass, rounds forward until the threat drops.

Shoot to wound is a fantasy set up by Hollywood and people who have never had a weapon pointed at them.
 

OldSolduer

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@Eaglelord17 If it were your child's school, the day after Uvalde, would you want someone to take that risk?

The reports I saw were that dude was pacing the school yard, rifle in tow. Someone saw, ran into the school and got them to call 9-1-1, locked the schools down in the area, and then TPS arrived on scene. Once they located the suspect, an altercation started, and threat was neutralized.

The ONLY way I would believe TPS would have shot this person, in Suburbia, in the middle of the afternoon, is if there was a legitimate threat. At 100 meters, I can't tell if it's an AirSoft gun or if it's a real weapon capable of killing people. SIU will definitely know once their investigation is complete and we have more info. In the heat of the moment.... I would probably would have fired as well, if the scenario played out as it did.

As much as we will dissect the action of these officers in Toronto, the officers in Uvalde are being flagellated for their inaction.

There is no happy ending here, in the sense that a situation developed where people were fearful of their lives due to the actions of this suspect. Even if he was apprehended, you can't unring that bell.
This in highlights. I have an airsoft rifle that looks like a C8 from a distance.
 

Eaglelord17

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1.Doesn't matter.
2.Get stuffed
3.Amazing how things work out that way in real life eh?
4. Pesky thing called "investigation "......but don't worry, doesn't appear you need anything like that to determine what happened.
Very hostile. Did I ever say I determined what happened? I said we need more information but based off initial reports it appears to be suicide by cop. We shall know more as more info becomes available.

@Eaglelord17 If it were your child's school, the day after Uvalde, would you want someone to take that risk?The reports I saw were that dude was pacing the school yard, rifle in tow. Someone saw, ran into the school and got them to call 9-1-1, locked the schools down in the area, and then TPS arrived on scene. Once they located the suspect, an altercation started, and threat was neutralized.

The ONLY way I would believe TPS would have shot this person, in Suburbia, in the middle of the afternoon, is if there was a legitimate threat. At 100 meters, I can't tell if it's an AirSoft gun or if it's a real weapon capable of killing people. SIU will definitely know once their investigation is complete and we have more info. In the heat of the moment.... I would probably would have fired as well, if the scenario played out as it did.

As much as we will dissect the action of these officers in Toronto, the officers in Uvalde are being flagellated for their inaction.

There is no happy ending here, in the sense that a situation developed where people were fearful of their lives due to the actions of this suspect. Even if he was apprehended, you can't unring that bell.
I am not faulting police here I am simply not instantly cheering. I don’t have enough information either way to make that decision. It sounds like this is going to be a sad story for all involved. If this is a suicide by cop then the cop has to deal with the mental aspect of having killed someone who wasn’t actually a threat (wouldn’t wish that upon anyone). Even just the mental aspect of having shot someone I wouldn’t wish upon them.

I can’t say what I would do in the heat of the moment as we don’t have enough information. Again how was the person shot acting when the police arrived? How did the cops act when they arrived? What distances did they shoot? What did they shoot with? Was it a real firearm and if it wasn’t how realistic was it? What steps lead up to them shooting? All very important details which we are lacking as of right now.
 

dimsum

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I can’t say what I would do in the heat of the moment as we don’t have enough information. Again how was the person shot acting when the police arrived? How did the cops act when they arrived? What distances did they shoot? What did they shoot with? Was it a real firearm and if it wasn’t how realistic was it? What steps lead up to them shooting? All very important details which we are lacking as of right now.
Do TPS cars have a rifle/carbine in them? If not, it's just their service sidearm.
 

KevinB

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From the reports I saw it said a BB gun was recovered from the scene.

Lots of unanswered questions before I start cheering.

1) Was it a real firearm?
Utterly irrelevant.

2) Did the person actually threaten anyone or did a cop simply see someone with what appeared to be a rifle and shot (i.e. pointing it at people, screaming they were going to kill someone, or was it a rifle slung over a shoulder and a cop simply lined up at 100m and fired without even asking them to drop it, etc.)?
Let’s think exactly about the situation. This occurs just one day after a significantly horrifying school shooting down here.
3) If it was shoot first ask questions later that is very chilling idea and its how innocents get killed. We had one guy a few years ago heading home at the same time as a Christmas parade bring a rifle in from his car. SWAT showed up and eventually it turned out everything was perfectly fine, but shooting first would have resulted in a citizen going about legal business being killed. It is also how children playing potentially get killed too.
Don’t expose weapons that are not intending to be used. This isn’t the 70’s or 80’s anymore. Gun culture is on the decline, and for the vast majority of people ‘gun’ means threat.
I was at a course years ago, in my ERT gear complete with rifle helmet etc. and giant POLICE on my vest getting out of my marked POLICE vehicle at the hotel I was staying. someone called the local POLICE…

4) With how tight lipped they are being with it so far it likely isn’t a good look for police as if it was a good look they would likely be sharing a lot more info.
Virtually no LEA likes to brag about shooting people, it’s generally a tie as best in public with a good shooting.

Going to wait for more info before making full judgement and cheering as right now from what limited infornation that is available isn’t giving me the warm and fuzzies. Instead it is most likely appearing to be some poor teenager/early 20s individual committing suicide by cop.
That sounds exactly right - but the individual made that choice. It’s unfortunate, but put me in the better safe than sorry category, as it could have turned out with two downed officers and multiple children killed.
 

daftandbarmy

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Even then, "shoot to wound" is not a thing. It hasn't been for ages. We all know EOF; if you're at the point where you have guns up, you're shooting to kill. Centre of mass, rounds forward until the threat drops.

Shoot to wound is a fantasy set up by Hollywood and people who have never had a weapon pointed at them.

Rather judged by 12 than carried by 6.

(Of course, at my current state of fitness, they'd have to raise that second number to about 8 :) )
 

mariomike

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Do TPS cars have a rifle/carbine in them?

Saw this from 2016,

Toronto police spokesperson Mark Pugash told CTV News Tuesday that three cars in each of the city’s 17 divisions will have access to the Colt Canada C8 Carbine,
 
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