A-10 Warthog

[Colin Parkinson]

Sure. But just a reminder that unmanned doesn't always equal remotely operated. Loitering munitions can do autonomous target recognition and even area denial. We're even moving to a world where the swarms can self target and prioritize sometimes without links between themselves.

And more than likely, in any scenario where somebody is jamming, the next move will be having a home-on-jam munition delivered. The EW cat-and-mouse game is going on in parallel.

Challenge with autonomous system, would we let them loose in battlefields still filled with significant civilian populations or where our troops are heavily mixed with the enemy? There are countries out there that would use civilians as human shields to deter our automated systems. Whatever we have, I want a mix of manned, remote and autonomous. That allows us to adapt to changing battlefield conditions.

 

[Brad Sallows]

So where is the manned advantage on the battlefield? If any.

At the controls of the unmanned (and not reliably autonomous) advantages.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The JTAC identifies and calls in the target

if the JTAC's attention is mainly required only up to that point, one JTAC can deal with a lot more targets.

 

[Kirkhill]

At the controls of the unmanned (and not reliably autonomous) advantages.

Fair.

How many people do you need to put at risk to manage that potential failure?

I don't think every weapon system, every gun, missile, aircraft, tank or boat needs an onboard commander much less a dedicated at-risk crew.

 

[Brad Sallows]

How many people do you need to put at risk to manage that potential failure?

Depends on how much you can prefix "remote" to "controls".

 

[ytz]

Topical....

 

[ytz]

Challenge with autonomous system, would we let them loose in battlefields still filled with significant civilian populations or where our troops are heavily mixed with the enemy? There are countries out there that would use civilians as human shields to deter our automated systems. Whatever we have, I want a mix of manned, remote and autonomous. That allows us to adapt to changing battlefield conditions.

In that situation it's highly unlikely your ROEs will allow an A-10 to go "brrrrrtttt" either.

 

[Kirkhill]

Challenge with autonomous system, would we let them loose in battlefields still filled with significant civilian populations or where our troops are heavily mixed with the enemy? There are countries out there that would use civilians as human shields to deter our automated systems. Whatever we have, I want a mix of manned, remote and autonomous. That allows us to adapt to changing battlefield conditions.

That is where I argue that the proper role of boots on the ground is in the constabulary role after the machine on machine conflict has cleared the battlespace.

It can only be people wandering through the crowd sorting those people that are threats ftom those that aren't.

Those people confronting the crowds will benefit from machines in overwatch that have human supervisors and commanders.

 

[Kirkhill]

Depends on how much you can prefix "remote" to "controls".

That also depends on how comprehensive an electronic effect the opposition can generate.

Can they only jam an FPV or a mine? Or can they jam an entire front?

 

[markppcli]

if the JTAC's attention is mainly required only up to that point, one JTAC can deal with a lot more targets.

Multiple targets is fine, and normal. However attention doesnt drop at identification of target. Id argue that @FJAG 's assertion that target identification is a primary task is starting off on the wrong foot. Overwhelmingly we are moving back and taking targeting data from other sources. However air space management and deconfliction is ongoing and only getting more complex.

That said I do think as we get more drones and they become more autonomous, demand from the guys and gals on the ground will skyrocket. Trying to explain to a pilot the exact picture on the ground in the middle of a fight is way more challenging than simply being able to input instructions on a map on a tablet (by the JTAC) and having the aircraft autonomously execute.

That's why we pre brief. A10s have the advantage of probably the best ground SA tools in the US fleet. Its pretty easy to pass a blue force trace, especially with the data links we have now.