A Deeply Fractured US

[brihard]

Canada also uses a one party rule. As long as one party knows the conversation is being recorded. If you are part of the conversation, you can record, without anyone else knowing.

Yup- just with a caveat being that, if it’s for law enforcement purposes, you need a warrant, or else the evidence gets thrown out. Usually we use One Party warrants with an undercover officer or police agent (a confidential informant who is actually directed by police to take certain actions).

But yeah, generally speaking, in Canada, any participant to a private communication can legally record it without telling the others.

 

[mariomike]

Get the trumpers out of the republicans and get the socialists out of the democrats.

It seems like most / all Republican presidential candidates on TV are auditioning for VP.

With the notable exception of Chris Christie. He's sassy!

I don't think it's in any GOP candidates political best interest to suggest, "Get the trumpers out", if they hope to become VP.

Others have suggested the best way to reverse the trend of Republicans losing the popular vote in 7 out of the past 8 presidential elections might be to "win over the hearts and minds of ALL Americans."

Considering the average lifespan of an American male is about 73 ( depending on source ), whoever gets the VP job, in either party, stands a pretty fair chance of ranking up by Inauguration Day , 2029.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This drama over the speaker is just showing me that they need to split the parties from two big ones to several smaller ones that are more focused in political allegiance and beliefs. Get the trumpers out of the republicans and get the socialists out of the democrats.

I bet that would do more to stabilize the country politically than basically anything else could.

It's been tried before. The Tea Party being the latest, I believe. The problem is the status quo mounts severe offensive attacks on anyone trying to impede on their status, to drive them out to obscurity.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Chris Christie has zero chance of getting nominated. He's there, likely paid, to be the biggest thorn in Trump’s side he can be and try draw votes away from him.
In 2016 he wanted to be Trump’s VP, got passed over. Wanted to be AG, got passed over. He was offered other positions, but sulking, turned them down. He hates Trump so bad, that he even accuses Trump of giving him Covid and landing him in intensive care. Probably nothing to do with his weight though. He holds a shaky 3% in the current race, with 70% flat out saying they would never consider him ever, period.
I expect he won't be there long though, he won't meet the requirements to stay on the debate stage. Sassy or not.

 

[kkwd]

Joe Biden has slipped 11% in overall approval among Democrats in just this month. Maybe it is his support of Israel that has caused this. There are loud voices in his party that absolutely hate his support of Israel. He is doing the right thing in my opinion so let's hope he doesn't live up to Bob Gates assessment "I think he has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades”.
Gallup
Gates

 

[kkwd]

Yup- just with a caveat being that, if it’s for law enforcement purposes, you need a warrant, or else the evidence gets thrown out. Usually we use One Party warrants with an undercover officer or police agent (a confidential informant who is actually directed by police to take certain actions).

But yeah, generally speaking, in Canada, any participant to a private communication can legally record it without telling the others.

Can you take a look at this Florida law on recording conversations and give an opinion. Saying Trump was not in the White House but in Florida in the winter of 2021 and Meadows was recording conversations.
Florida Eavesdropping

 

[mariomike]

Joe Biden has slipped 11% in overall approval among Democrats in just this month. Maybe it is his support of Israel that has caused this. There are loud voices in his party that absolutely hate his support of Israel.

As far as party politics go, have to wait till their next election.


U.S. Presidential Elections: Jewish Voting Record (1916 - Present )

Jewish Voting Record in U.S. Presidential Elections

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

American Jews tend to favor Democratic candidates, with 71% of Jewish voters choosing Democratic candidates on average and 26% choosing Republicans since 1968.

 

[kkwd]

As far as party politics go, have to wait till their next election.


U.S. Presidential Elections: Jewish Voting Record (1916 - Present )

Jewish Voting Record in U.S. Presidential Elections

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

The biggest Jewish population in the United States are in New York City and Los Angeles so that is a certain electoral college win for the Democrats in those areas.

 

[brihard]

Can you take a look at this Florida law on recording conversations and give an opinion. Saying Trump was not in the White House but in Florida in the winter of 2021 and Meadows was recording conversations.
Florida Eavesdropping

It would be quite a stretch for me to try to read beyond the bare black and white. Are you saying hypothetically if Meadows was recording Trump, and Trump was in Florida at the time? Plain wording would suggest that if Meadows did that unilaterally and without consent he could land in shit under a Florida law. I don’t know if it would be different if he were outside of Florida, say on the other end of a phone and in a one party consent state. Also, I think it would make a huge difference if he was cooperating with law enforcement and necessary legalities were observed- though I won’t try to guess whether he would have flipped that early.

Sorry, we’re just too far into the hypothetical, and I’d rather stick to the facts as best as we’re able to determine them.

 

[quadrapiper]

Re: Trump and wires, it doesn't seem impossible that at least some of his inner circle would be inclined to record things for their own eventual or immediate self-preservation, on general shady principles, or for one kind of infighting or another.

 

[kkwd]

It would be quite a stretch for me to try to read beyond the bare black and white. Are you saying hypothetically if Meadows was recording Trump, and Trump was in Florida at the time? Plain wording would suggest that if Meadows did that unilaterally and without consent he could land in shit under a Florida law. I don’t know if it would be different if he were outside of Florida, say on the other end of a phone and in a one party consent state. Also, I think it would make a huge difference if he was cooperating with law enforcement and necessary legalities were observed- though I won’t try to guess whether he would have flipped that early.

Sorry, we’re just too far into the hypothetical, and I’d rather stick to the facts as best as we’re able to determine them.

This whole line started with Kevin B hearing through the grapevine that Meadows may have been recording conversations. You know this forum, people like to take something iffy and run with it. Nothing wrong with that, it makes things entertaining. Anyway, Meadows was there the day this all went down and personal testimony would seem the most valuable.

 

[mariomike]

The biggest Jewish population in the United States are in New York City and Los Angeles so that is a certain electoral college win for the Democrats in those areas.

Have to wait and see how it goes in the next one.

In the last one,

Over three-quarters of U.S. Jews voted for Biden in election, poll finds

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[brihard]

This whole line started with Kevin B hearing through the grapevine that Meadows may have been recording conversations. You know this forum, people like to take something iffy and run with it. Nothing wrong with that, it makes things entertaining. Anyway, Meadows was there the day this all went down and personal testimony would seem the most valuable.

If he’s smart - and I’m not saying he is, but if he is - he took good, detailed handwritten notes. Contemporaneous notes are very, very valuable in investigations and in court.

 

[Remius]

A different trial just started today. Still involving Trump.

Historic hearings begin on whether 14th Amendment disqualifies Trump from 2024 race

Hearings began is week in Colorado and Minnesota on whether the 14th Amendment disqualifies Trump from running for president in 2024 because of Jan. 6

abcnews.go.com

Interesting that it is GOP voters bringing this forward.

 

[KevinB]

A different trial just started today. Still involving Trump.

Historic hearings begin on whether 14th Amendment disqualifies Trump from 2024 race

Hearings began is week in Colorado and Minnesota on whether the 14th Amendment disqualifies Trump from running for president in 2024 because of Jan. 6

abcnews.go.com

Interesting that it is GOP voters bringing this forward.

I find it interesting that what could occur if some states bar a Trump ticket on the ballot.
Further getting interesting in terms of electoral college issues - as well as a potential collisions in State v Federal authority.

 

[brihard]

I find it interesting that what could occur if some states bar a Trump ticket on the ballot.
Further getting interesting in terms of electoral college issues - as well as a potential collisions in State v Federal authority.

However it goes this one will likely rocket through appeals to the Supreme Court.

 

[Kirkhill]

The Progressive Left Is a Paper Tiger

Time to call their bluff.

www.liberalpatriot.com

....the progressive left has not given up on pushing their “decolonialist” perspective within the Democratic Party, demanding that Biden soften his support for Israel and calling for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire in the conflict. This policy recommendation is backed up what is essentially a threat: if Democrats don’t move in the direction recommended by the progressive left, “their” voters, especially young voters, will fail to be “energized” in 2024, endangering Biden’s re-election and Democratic electoral prospects generally.

But...

... the progressive or intersectional left,... is actually a pretty small slice of voters—six percent in the Pew typology, eight percent in the More in Common typology....

a very recent poll by Slingshot Strategies on the Israel-Gaza conflict.

1. Respondents were asked who they blame for the current violence in Israel and Gaza. Among the 18-44 year old age group, which covers the entire Millennial generation and eligible members of Gen Z, just 19 percent blame Israel for oppressing the Palestinians, less than half the 44 percent who blame Hamas for committing acts of terrorism against Israel (36 percent had no opinion).
2. Respondents were also asked what they think about the level of support Biden is showing for Israel. Less than one third (31 percent) of 18-44 year olds think Biden has been showing too much support for Israel, compared to 69 percent who believe he is either showing the right amount (42 percent) or not enough (27 percent) support for Israel.
3. Similarly, only a third of this age group prefers that the U.S. work to broker a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, less than the 36 percent who would prefer that the U.S. support Israel’s attempt to eliminate Hamas’s military capabilities.

In a recent 6,000 person survey by the American Enterprise Institute’s Survey Center on American Life (SCAL).... By 64 percent to 36 percent, Millennial/Gen Z (18-44 year old) voters favored “Use a mix of energy sources including oil, coal and natural gas along with renewable energy sources” over “Phase out the use of oil, coal and natural gas completely, relying instead on renewable energy sources such as wind and solar power only.” ...

...in a recent 3,000 voter survey conducted by YouGov for The Liberal Patriot, the following choices were offered to voters about energy strategy:

• We need a rapid green transition to end the use of fossil fuels and replace them with fully renewable energy sources;
• We need an “all-of-the above” strategy that provides abundant and cheap energy from multiple sources including oil and gas to renewables to advanced nuclear power; or
• We need to stop the push to replace domestic oil and gas production with unproven green energy projects that raise costs and undercut jobs.

Among the same Millennial/Gen Z (18-44 year old) voters, ... ending the use of fossil fuels and rapidly adopting renewables, is a distinctly minoritarian one, embraced by just 36 percent of these voters. The most popular position is the second, all-of-the above approach that emphasizes energy abundance and the use of fossil fuels and renewables and nuclear, favored by 48 percent of Millennial/Gen Z voters. Another 16 percent flat-out support production of fossil fuels and oppose green energy projects. Together that’s 64 percent of these voters...

about Hispanics, the group driving the growth of the nonwhite population and much of Democrats’ hopes for the future. It turns out that Hispanic voters who did not show up in 2022 but did vote in 2020 are much more Republican leaning than 2022 Hispanic voters. According to a study by Equis Research of the Hispanic electorate, Hispanics who were drawn into the 2020 Presidential election but have been skipping congressional elections favor a generic Republican Presidential candidate over Biden by 20 points. Hispanic men under 40 in this group are even more pro-GOP, favoring a generic Republican by well over 30 points.

WRT Latinos

Not all latinos are created equal....

Mexicans admit they’re racist — if only we could

“Skin color is important in the U.S. despite widespread denial; it has been since 1619, when the first African slave walked off a boat at Jamestown.”

thehill.com

President Hugo Chavez: And The Rise Of Black Indian Power by William Loren Katz / Opinions / In Motion Magazine

.... Chavez as a .... “populist” - intended as a sharp criticism. Actually, his “Bolivarian” revolution springs from multicultural grass roots that pre-date the foreign invasion of the Americas that began in 1492, centuries before Karl Marx, Castro, Hussein or populism.

Like four-fifths of Venezuelans today, Chavez was born of poor Black and Indian parents. Since the days of Columbus, descendants of the Spanish conquerors have claimed the privilege of governing Latin America. They have effectively barred Indigenous people from high office. Chavez stands as a direct challenge to white domination of South American governments.

Juan Evo Morales Ayma was elected Bolivia's first indigenous President, so the role of people of color also is rising in the Americas.

Many of the people arriving in the US from Latin America are neither fans of socialism or racial diversity.

 

[dimsum]

Many of the people arriving in the US from Latin America are neither fans of socialism or racial diversity.

A bit ironic because most of them would be considered visible minorities.

 

[RangerRay]

I have a hard time believing progressive lefties would stay home if it meant another term of Trump. If they do, they’re even dumber than I thought.

The Dems would be wise to listen to truth-tellers like Ruy Teixeira and David Shor.

 

[KevinB]

So it is Election Day in VA (and several other states)
I'm a big fan of our current Governor - and his non MAGA Conservativism - so I am hoping it grows into more here.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/politics/virginia-elections-glenn-youngkin/index.html