A Deeply Fractured US

[Booter]

And of course this was a private event by a private person with his own private security… Not exactly a USSS protected government official. They would have little to no authority to physically secure beyond the event space. That said, absolutely there could be a designated “binoculars guy”.

If private figures are going to be more frequently targeted, their security details will be very challenged without having government resources or law enforcement authorities.

I know it’s private and that is a limitation like you said. I just also know that there are meetings before events where this is a topic of discussion- somebody involved had this discussion and somebody risked out a very basic part of the planning process. It would bigger belief that the folks on these pricey security details would skip that.

The campus police said they had 6 officers on duty, it’s possible Kirk’s event wouldn’t pay for an extra duty officer or something similar and the campus police lack the capacity/policy to do the duty Outside the normal every day stuff

Private business is always having to run that profit/spending line.

But if I was his advisor at an outdoor event it would have had some advice on this. And his team has more experience than me- by a long shot, it could be the advice was unheeded Etc (that would be a common one once money comes along- what do we need/ what have we never needed/ what the 99% threat we get- what do we need for that/ what do we have left over for the 1%)

 

[Blackadder1916]

If private figures are going to be more frequently targeted, their security details will be very challenged without having government resources or law enforcement authorities.

Free speech is "free", but not cheap.

 

[dapaterson]

We've reached the "Fox hosts call for the homeless to be euthanized" stage of the collapse of the USA.

https://bsky.app/profile/phillewis.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3lyqe7j7uf225

 

[Booter]

I watched the clip hoping that was out of context or he was talking about the criminal component and capital punishment. But it’s just a terrible statement.

 

[Kilted]

And of course this was a private event by a private person with his own private security… Not exactly a USSS protected government official. They would have little to no authority to physically secure beyond the event space. That said, absolutely there could be a designated “binoculars guy”.

If private figures are going to be more frequently targeted, their security details will be very challenged without having government resources or law enforcement authorities.

Perhaps we may start to see these types of events moving inside. It may mean that not as many can attend, but it is potentially an option.

 

[Brad Sallows]

So it might not have been a professional following Putin's orders or a false-flag operation after all? Will the usual conspiracists learn from this?

Reactions on both "sides" are over-borne and discreditable, but usually it's the "side" that's hurting that gets some latitude for rage. The intemperate left ranging from gleeful celebration down to left-handed schadenfreude, though, are going to fill a lot of people with resolve - not to violence, mostly, as much as political action and - where rules can be found to serve - legal.

 

[The Bread Guy]

So it might not have been a professional following Putin's orders or a false-flag operation after all? Will the usual conspiracists learn from this?

Two letter answer

Reactions on both "sides" are over-borne and discreditable, but usually it's the "side" that's hurting that gets some latitude for rage.

Really? Did that slack get cut when a Minnesota legislator was killed in her own home? I don’t remember such caveats but I stand to be corrected …

 

[Brad Sallows]

Really? Did that slack get cut when a Minnesota legislator was killed in her own home? I don’t remember such caveats but I stand to be corrected …

Hard to tell. The rage was probably not within two orders of magnitude of the current event because neither of the victims really had a national profile, and definitely not a controversial one. (Abortion/anti-abortion is controversial, but it's been so deeply embedded in US politics for so long as to desensitize most people to the few who are strident.) I don't recollect a lot of high-fiving in prominent Republican/conservative circles to compare with what's been going on in the mere space of days. One exception wouldn't alter a trend, regardless.

 

[Remius]

Hard to tell. The rage was probably not within two orders of magnitude of the current event because neither of the victims really had a national profile, and definitely not a controversial one. (Abortion/anti-abortion is controversial, but it's been so deeply embedded in US politics for so long as to desensitize most people to the few who are strident.) I don't recollect a lot of high-fiving in prominent Republican/conservative circles to compare with what's been going on in the mere space of days. One exception wouldn't alter a trend, regardless.

A prominent conservative personality did indeed. He called on someone to pay for the pelosi attacker’s bail and that he should be treated as a patriot.

 

[MrWhyt]

A prominent conservative personality did indeed. He called on someone to pay for the pelosi attacker’s bail and that he should be treated as a patriot.

that same personality also said that it was worth some gun deaths to protect the second amendment, I wonder whatever happened to that guy?

 

[Brad Sallows]

A prominent conservative personality did indeed. He called on someone to pay for the pelosi attacker’s bail and that he should be treated as a patriot.

As usual, I didn't write "none". I could wish that people would distinguish between the concepts of none, few, many, most, all.

As I've written, I don't expect tit-for-tat assassination violence but I do expect increased political and legal resolve from conservatives who are "collecting" jubilant reactions. The assassination is going to end up as the deed of one man (perhaps, according to reports, with a couple of assists); the collected volume of celebratory responses is going to be a legacy attributed to many and is likely to significantly influence right-wing voter enthusiasm through the next two election cycles. Everyone who has expressed even the least left-handed approval is going to have it thrown back in his face for the next 10 years or more, extending to employers unless the employees are decisively disavowed (eg. fired). This is a matter of consequence for any affected public agency or any institution seeking to influence American politics.

 

[Brad Sallows]

that same personality also said that it was worth some gun deaths to protect the second amendment, I wonder whatever happened to that guy?

Exhibit B for left-handed schadenfreude.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Hard to tell. The rage was probably not within two orders of magnitude of the current event because neither of the victims really had a national profile, and definitely not a controversial one.

Well, there are some that might say that if the slain politician had a Presidential edict calling for flags to be flown at half-mast, issued a live statement to the nation on the death, offered a medal and similar things, that event, too, would have had a national profile - especially as an elected representative of the people, as opposed to a political operator, being killed. How many people knew who Charlie Kirk before he was killed, versus afterwards?

... I don't recollect a lot of high-fiving in prominent Republican/conservative circles to compare with what's been going on in the mere space of days. One exception wouldn't alter a trend, regardless.

How about two that we know of?

US Rep. Derrick Van Orden insults Minnesota governor, spreads unfounded theories after shooting

Wisconsin U.S. Rep. Derrick Van Orden is joining in with other national lawmakers in spreading disinformation about an attack in Minnesota that left a Democratic state lawmaker dead over the weekend.

www.wpr.org

Sen. Mike Lee deletes controversial Minnesota shootings posts amid backlash

Republican Sen. Mike Lee is facing criticism over his social media posts about the assassination of a Minnesota lawmaker and her husband.

abcnews.go.com

 

[brihard]

Well, there are some that might say that if the slain politician had a Presidential edict calling for flags to be flown at half-mast, issued a live statement to the nation on the death, offered a medal and similar things, that event, too, would have had a national profile - especially as an elected representative of the people, as opposed to a political operator, being killed. How many people knew who Charlie Kirk before he was killed, versus afterwards?

How about two that we know of?

US Rep. Derrick Van Orden insults Minnesota governor, spreads unfounded theories after shooting

Wisconsin U.S. Rep. Derrick Van Orden is joining in with other national lawmakers in spreading disinformation about an attack in Minnesota that left a Democratic state lawmaker dead over the weekend.

www.wpr.org

Sen. Mike Lee deletes controversial Minnesota shootings posts amid backlash

Republican Sen. Mike Lee is facing criticism over his social media posts about the assassination of a Minnesota lawmaker and her husband.

abcnews.go.com

Kirk’s murder is abhorrent and repugnant. It should be condemned along with any act of political violence.

His death is also being politically exploited. Half-masting the national flag for a political celebrity is not the intended usage of that honour. He has immediately been built up into a political martyr, and there is violence being urged in his memory. The cries of “this is war!” following his assassination are too plentiful, and from people too prominent to ignore.

Kirk also held and expressed some really gross and awful views that clearly put some people as less human than others- his comments on black women for instance, or in the wake of the attempted murder of Pelosi’s husband. He was a contributor to political radicalization. He did not deserve any violence, let alone murder, for holding and expressing his views, but he definitely doesn’t deserve the near-deification that has happened in its wake.

His death and legacy are catalyzed by, and are in turn further catalyzing, the really awful ongoing cycle of hyper-partisanship in America.

And this will happen again and will get worse.

 

[Jarnhamar]

A prominent conservative personality did indeed. He called on someone to pay for the pelosi attacker’s bail and that he should be treated as a patriot.

That's not entirely accurate.

“Why has he not been bailed out? By the way, if some amazing patriot out there in San Francisco or the Bay Area wants to really be a midterm hero, someone should go and bail this guy out. I bet his bail’s like 30,000 or 40,000 bucks. Bail him out, and then go ask him some questions.”

During the episode he made it clear he found the attack "awful" but was criticizing what he saw as inconsistency in how bail (or pretrial release) was handled. For lesser profile cases people were released more readily, while in this high-profile case, the attacker was still in custody.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I wonder whatever happened to that guy?

Good one.

 

[Genetk44]

Does anybody else think it was inappropriate that taxpayers are on the hook for the costs of flying Charlie Kirks remains back to his home city aboard Air Force 2?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Does anybody else think it was inappropriate that taxpayers are on the hook for the costs of flying Charlie Kirks remains back to his home city aboard Air Force 2?

If it stops Conservatives from rioting and tearing apart cities why not? It's going to save millions of dollars in the long run.

 

[OldSolduer]

Free speech is "free", but not cheap.

Freedom isn’t free.

 

[Haggis]

Kirk’s murder is abhorrent and repugnant. It should be condemned along with any act of political violence.

His death is also being politically exploited. Half-masting the national flag for a political celebrity is not the intended usage of that honour. He has immediately been built up into a political martyr, and there is violence being urged in his memory. The cries of “this is war!” following his assassination are too plentiful, and from people too prominent to ignore.

Kirk also held and expressed some really gross and awful views that clearly put some people as less human than others- his comments on black women for instance, or in the wake of the attempted murder of Pelosi’s husband. He was a contributor to political radicalization. He did not deserve any violence, let alone murder, for holding and expressing his views, but he definitely doesn’t deserve the near-deification that has happened in its wake.

His death and legacy are catalyzed by, and are in turn further catalyzing, the really awful ongoing cycle of hyper-partisanship in America.

And this will happen again and will get worse.

I think this will also spur a renewed growth in more heavily armed pseudo-police private security contractors down there.