A Deeply Fractured US

[Jarnhamar]

Of all things in the world to get worked up. You got SecDef cancelling Ivy League educations. And the White House is focused on cancelling start-stop:

Have you ever drove a car with that? Maddening.

 

[PrairieFella]

You see, that's where my theory of having a Constitution that guarantees "freedom from religion" is much more useful then one that guarantees "freedom of religion."

The last one is only useful until there's a block of folks that is even more attached to their religion then you are to yours. Then they become a threat.

You know that "woke" institutions don't exist because the majority of the people are in favour of "woke." "Woke" institutions are the product of small activist groups that really care about their theory of society and who make the effort to finagle their way into local, then regional and then federal governments and institutions. Most of us are far too lazy to get involved. We're happy to let other folks do it and barely show up for elections. We let them make our society "woke."

We've had this immigrant thing before. Talk to the Irish and Russians and Jews who came back around the 1890s and thereafter about how easily they could integrate. Look into the KKK resurgence in the US in the late 1900s to 1930s. Hell, I grew up in Toronto when Poles, and Italians were the standing butt of all jokes.

I've always believed in "progressive conservatism" as the proper balance between respecting what needs to stay and what ought to move forward. I've had a troubled relationship with just plain old "conservatism" or , what's worse, a call to turn the clock back being what's needed to make things great - again.

The thing is the intelligentsia of the modern conservatives in the US and increasingly across the West arent really conservative - theyre regressive. Theyre trying their damnedest to tear down systems to build them back up in some twisted view of the glory days of ole, its a purely revisionist and revolutionary worldvoew wrapped in flag and bearing a cross. A conservative accepts change is necessary and tries to guide it sensibly and in a modest fashion, viewong change through the lens of convention and tradition. As a cohesive political ideology it arose in the UK in response to the worst excesses of the French Revolution.

We must all obey the great law of change. It is the most powerful law of nature, and the means perhaps of its conservation. All we can do, and that human wisdom can do, is to provide that the change shall proceed by insensible degrees. This has all the benefits which may be in change, without any of the inconveniences of mutation.

Edmund Burke, 1792

 

[Blackadder1916]

I don't want to sound dismissive, but Newfoundlanders never really entered into our consciousness in Toronto (Scarborough actually - it makes a difference). There was no world north of the 401 nor east of Markham Rd.

When they lumped Newfoundlanders in with Maritimers. The Newfoundland Diaspora has been continuous for well over a hundred years. From before the First World War, the majority of migrants from the island headed to the Northeastern US, Boston and New York being the primary destinations. It was the Second World War and Confederation that moved the focus to Canada.

Some excerpts from an article that perhaps give a sense that Newfoundlanders (and Maritimers) were indeed a noticeable presence in Toronto and environs in those days, despite not entering your consciousness. They were just as much migrants as the post-war influx of Europeans.

View of Confederation’s Casualties: The “Maritimer” as a Problem in 1960s Toronto | Acadiensis

The1951 census revealed, for instance, that nearly 4 per cent of the city’s population had been born in the Atlantic Provinces. An additional 12,000 lived in the remaining areas of York County. Thousands of former Newfoundlanders lived in greater Toronto by the mid-1950s. By 1961, 4.7 per cent of Toronto’s population had been born in the Atlantic region and they represented 49 per cent of all interprovincial migrants.

. . . between 1966 and 1971, Ontario was the destination of 61.6 per cent of out-migrants from Newfoundland and 41.7 per cent of those from New Brunswick.

Prior to the 1960s there appears to be little negative stereotyping in the Toronto media of Atlantic Canadian migrants as a group despite their significant influx into the area. Evidence of their presence included church, athletic, and social organizations and activities, and at least one weekly newspaper, The Newfoundlander, established in the late 1960s. By 1968 greater Toronto, in the words of one journalist, contained a large “assimilated” community of former Atlantic Canadians that included thousands of Newfoundlanders and five thousand Acadians.

Some “positive” commentary on regional culture was also problematic, such as a Globe and Mail column in 1965 that attributed Newfoundland’s high birthrate to a combination of poverty and a joie de vivre: “They sing, dance, drink, go fishing, make love and generally get the most they can out ofexistence.”17 This was the period, according to Larry J. Orton, that the “Newfie” joke, which parodied Newfoundlanders’ lack of intelligence in a manner similar to “Polack” and other ethnic jokes, first became popular in Ontario.

In 1965, Alderman Michael Grayson stirred controversy by denouncing Atlantic Canadians who moved to Toronto in order to exploit welfare benefits. In doing so he helped create a lasting stereotypical image: “You have a fellow drive up here in a broken-down car, climb into the St. James Town area, get on welfare and he’s having the time of his life.”27 This controversy was framed against the backdrop of a perceived social crisis surrounding affordable housing in Toronto’s older neighbourhoods. Mayor Philip Givens clarified for the media that most residents of the St. James Town slums had been born in Ontario, not the Maritimes.28 But that same year a magistrate in the city of Burlington, near Hamilton, Ontario, stated that young male migrants from Quebec, Newfoundland, and the Maritime provinces were especially prone to stolen property charges.29 Although serious crimes involving “Maritimers” were limited, regional identities were included when such crimes were reported.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The thing is the intelligentsia of the modern conservatives in the US and increasingly across the West arent really conservative - theyre regressive. Theyre trying their damnedest to tear down systems to build them back up in some twisted view of the glory days of ole, its a purely revisionist and revolutionary worldvoew wrapped in flag and bearing a cross. A conservative accepts change is necessary and tries to guide it sensibly and in a modest fashion, viewong change through the lens of convention and tradition. As a cohesive political ideology it arose in the UK in response to the worst excesses of the French Revolution.

We must all obey the great law of change. It is the most powerful law of nature, and the means perhaps of its conservation. All we can do, and that human wisdom can do, is to provide that the change shall proceed by insensible degrees. This has all the benefits which may be in change, without any of the inconveniences of mutation.

Edmund Burke, 1792

The best summary of American conservativism I've read is "The Conservative Sensibility" by George Will. Understanding it requires understanding there isn't just one kind of conservative.

 

[FJAG]

Hello fellow Scarberian. Although from a different era. Guessing my 90s childhood home in Malvern was a cornfield when you grew up in Scarborough. I think the house was built in the early 70s. Though the area my parents live in now was forest and fields when I was in high school. Was Johnny's Burgers and the Markham Station Restaurant around when you were growing up? Those are landmark institutions for me. Likewise the bakery at Warden Station.

Howdie. Yup I'm an older one. We lived in Birch Cliff Heights, just two blocks up from Birchmount Park CI. In fact I took my Grade 9 at RH King and then transferred from ST&T to A&S so that I could go to BPCI which had just opened that year.

I can't ever recall being in the Malvern Area in those days but certainly recall that one didn't have to go very far up Kennedy or Warden before you hit farm fields all the way up to Markham. As kids we used to bicycle along the CNR mainline to Highland Creek and it wasn't too far past Markham Rd that you started running into farmland in all directions with the odd small town or fledgling subdivision. I think Melvern didn't start growing beyond being a small farm town until just around the time I left for my basic officer's training in 1969.

Never ate at Johnny's Burgers although it was around then. Our hangout before cars was the Woolworth's lunch counter at Stop 14 on Kingston Rd and after cars, the Red Barn - loved those Barn Busters. Fun times.

 

[ytz]

The thing is the intelligentsia of the modern conservatives in the US and increasingly across the West arent really conservative - theyre regressive. Theyre trying their damnedest to tear down systems to build them back up in some twisted view of the glory days of ole,

100% this. And it's exhausting. Every single thing is a grievance to be outraged about. I always wonder if these people just don't have enough stress in life. And that's why they have the bandwidth to worry about the Starbucks front of the War on Christmas.

Going to be interesting to see how their voters react when there's so many real problems that regular people have, coming to the fore. And especially young people going forward with AI starting to decimate entry level white collar work over the coming few years.

 

[OldSolduer]

What? No Newfoundlander jokes?

Ukrainians in Western Canada. I never heard a Newfie joke til I was 17 or 18.

 

[ytz]

I can't ever recall being in the Malvern Area in those days but certainly recall that one didn't have to go very far up Kennedy or Warden before you hit farm fields all the way up to Markham. As kids we used to bicycle along the CNR mainline to Highland Creek and it wasn't too far past Markham Rd that you started running into farmland in all directions

Very cool. I can imagine how both different and familiar those parts must feel now. Or at least I get that feeling when visiting old hoods.

Never ate at Johnny's Burgers although it was around then.

It's such a unique institution. Generations go by. Demographics change. But Johnny's is a constant. Jim Carrey talked about going there when he was broke. You'll see immigrant kids going there with just a few toonies today. Right beside old folks who had their first date there. No matter the race, religion, wealth, it's the one place in Scarborough pretty much everybody who grew up there knows. Something quintessentially Toronto about a Greek immigrant family selling burgers for half the price of McDonald's to poor Indian and Chinese immigrant kids today. Heck, it was one man's dying wish:

https://www.toronto.com/news/family-of-man-who-loved-scarboroughs-johnnys-burgers-says-thanks/article_2f77f6d1-04ab-51eb-b10a-8a09366082d1.html

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sure. But like everything else they have to turn it into some culture war nonsense with two lesbos in a Prius dying of heat. It could have been an email.....

By the way start-stop doesn't turn off your AC. And hybrids don't work like that.....

Also like doesn't change anything for anybody who already has it on their car....

I don't believe I said anything about lesbians or Prius'.

I simply agree with deletion of auto start/stop and EGR systems on diesels.

 

[ytz]

I don't believe I said anything about lesbians or Prius'.

I simply agree with deletion of auto start/stop and EGR systems on diesels.

I was talking about the ad attached to their announcement of you click the link.

 

[mariomike]

I've stayed away from hi-tech stuff - it's just another thing to break that costs a lot to fix and - more likely then not - makes it impossible not to fix it.

As a pedestrian, vehicles with high vertical front ends get my attention.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

?????????

 

[ytz]

As a pedestrian, vehicles with high vertical front ends get my attention.

Among many reasons why American auto is getting killed globally.....

 

[mariomike]

?????????

Ever seen someone hit by one?????????

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Ever seen someone hit by one?????????

Yes. Unfortunately. A cyclist in Montreal and I acted as on-scene first aid person until the first responders could arrive.

But I am trying to see how your point relates to the high-tech stuff in any car or vehicle, and in particular to the one at issue, which is the start-stop system to cut down on fuel consumption.

 

[mariomike]

Among many reasons why American auto is getting killed globally.....

You may have a point. Saw this from Europe,

 

[ytz]

You literally can't fit those giant vehicles in so much of Asia and Europe. And Big 3 seem to have forgotten how to make smaller vehicles profitably.

 

[mariomike]

But I am trying to see how your point relates to the high-tech stuff in any car or vehicle, and in particular to the one at issue, which is the start-stop system to cut down on fuel consumption.

Wasn't aware thread was limited to start-stop. My bad.

I thought safety, and international sales of American vehicles might also be of interest to job protection and the economy to stay competitive.in foreign markets.

 

[mariomike]

You literally can't fit those giant vehicles in so much of Asia and Europe. And Big 3 seem to have forgotten how to make smaller vehicles profitably.

Even in the severe traffic congestion of a large city, that might be true. At least, from what I have seen.


Not a firefighter, but I've seen firefighter trucks in Europe and Asia. They seem much more maneuverable . And, from what I understand, are equally efficient.

 

[FJAG]

You may have a point. Saw this from Europe,

Ahh! So that's why every time someone on the highway is following me with only a half a car length between us when I'm already doing 10kph over the speed limit it's a pickup truck. The hood distorts their ability to judge distance.