A Deeply Fractured US

[Kirkhill]

I've always believed that informed opinions matter. Unfortunately, it's painfully obvious that the opinions of the misinformed and the ill-informed are carrying more and more weight.

In your opinion?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I've always believed that informed opinions matter. Unfortunately, it's painfully obvious that the opinions of the misinformed and the ill-informed are carrying more and more weight.

Remember, to some, you as well are the misinformed and the ill-informed.

 

[Brad Sallows]

an elected Republican wondering about it too...

"Wondering" is just "throwing sh!t out to excite people". Kinzinger is about to be not-elected, since his Democratic pals re-districted him out of his turf. Not sure what he has lined up that makes him stay on as a token tame Republican on the J6 committee. Never-Trump Republicans have a media presence very much out of proportion to their popular support. What they have to say isn't having much impact, and almost all of them are reputationally crippled by their (continuing, self-chosen) association with neo-conservativism and an inclination to what has been tagged "Russian Collusion Trutherism".

People ignore character flaws in order to get the policies they want. For example, feminists voted for Bill Clinton.

"But amidst the endless screams and inane babble, they discerned two words: supreme court."

Gentry Republicans (decorum, honour, civility, comity, all that) have been a real disappointment to voters who want to see their politicians get solid results, to push back when attacked, and not to cave when attacked indecorously. If Ted Cruz had prevailed in the 2016 nominations, I suspect he would have been elected. But the only choice on offer was Trump. Trump delivered some consequential things.

If all that is on offer again is Trump, and the Democrat is Biden or Harris, Trump has a good shot. It should have been easy to cut off Trump's path to a second nomination, but everything done now is suspect by default because of injudicious conduct of investigators during past investigations. All that sh!t is out of the horse and is not going back in. With Democrats helping "MAGA" candidates win primaries, cutting the nuts off co-operative Republicans like Kinzinger, and doubling down on the politics of division, defamation, and disparagement from the president on down, there's no point for Republicans to co-operate. A thousand commentators will respond with things Democrats have said and done, and the Democrats will burn a Republican as soon as his usefulness ends.

 

[Halifax Tar]

An opinion that I share with the author and consider worth sharing.

Just Who Are Those (Semi) Fascists of Yours, Mr. President? - John Kass

By John Kass Sept. 7, 2022 Did President Joe Biden really pour steaming buckets of official White House hate upon the heads of 75 million American citizens simply for the sin of disagreeing with him? Yes, he did. With just two months before the most important election in our lifetimes, Biden...

johnkassnews.com

That's a read for sure...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

An opinion that I share with the author and consider worth sharing.

Just Who Are Those (Semi) Fascists of Yours, Mr. President? - John Kass

By John Kass Sept. 7, 2022 Did President Joe Biden really pour steaming buckets of official White House hate upon the heads of 75 million American citizens simply for the sin of disagreeing with him? Yes, he did. With just two months before the most important election in our lifetimes, Biden...

johnkassnews.com

Good article.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Not sure if it's been confirmed outside the WP article, but if it's true, the records seized included high sensitive documents on a foreign governments nuclear capabilities that was very limited distribution with even senior WH advisors not having access to it, and the kind of document where each copy is tracked with a person responsible for it's location at all times.

If true, that seems really bad.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think if that were true, they wouldn't have waited four days to serve the warrant? Two possibilities I see. Blatant rumourmongering to fuel anti-Trumpers. When you see that National Enquirer phrase, 'according to people familiar with the matter' it immediately signifies bullshit. Or more selective leaks, by the FBI or DOJ, (or Schiff, et al) to muddy the waters and put Trump in a bad light. All the same shtick they've been playing at since 2015.

 

[QV]

If true

That's been the story of the last 6 years.... "If true... !!!!"

 

[Brad Sallows]

"A document describing a foreign government’s military defenses, including its nuclear capabilities, was found by FBI agents who searched former president Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and private club last month, according to people familiar with the matter, underscoring concerns among U.S. intelligence officials about classified material stashed in the Florida property."

Document, singular. Nothing about its sensitivity, distribution, kind, whether it was classified, etc. Classic leak. Hand-waving hint of impropriety, then written up in news articles with mention of other documents which are sensitive, classified, etc, inviting readers to mix interpretations. Deception by leakers, followed by deceptive writing by news agencies. Implausible that the execution of the story is unintentional.

The story isn't the document (until something substantial and relevant is claimed about its status); the story is the leak. Someone just shat out part of whatever remains of the integrity of the investigation. Are there no adults who can get a grip on those people and stop f*cking things up? Top. Men.

Someone has to substantiate the status of the document. It has to be more than an open-source or otherwise innocuous item, or people are free to assume that it is and more institutional credibility is burned away by people seeking political advantage.

 

[brihard]

I think if that were true, they wouldn't have waited four days to serve the warrant? Two possibilities I see. Blatant rumourmongering to fuel anti-Trumpers. When you see that National Enquirer phrase, 'according to people familiar with the matter' it immediately signifies bullshit. Or more selective leaks, by the FBI or DOJ, (or Schiff, et al) to muddy the waters and put Trump in a bad light. All the same shtick they've been playing at since 2015.

Getting a search warrant is predicated on what you can articulate you reasonably expect to find and seize. What you actually find once you’re in the door can turn out to be quite different and can dramatically change the nature or direction of an investigation. The warrant was broadly written to include “any document with classification markings”, based, in part, on what had been previously surrendered as responsive to the grand jury subpoena. So they had reasonable grounds to believe there were further classified documents; that doesn’t tell you what, specifically, the nature or content of such documents may be when you find them.

A more relatable example might be police doing a search warrant for stolen ID and equipment to make fake credit cards, and finding drugs and weapons once they’re in the house. Or, maybe doing a search warrant for marijuana and finding meth. All that to say, it’s not weird that search warrant results can exceed expectations.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Let's not forget the dems modus operandi - The Wrap Up Smear.
Make up a story and leak it to the press.
Use the press story as validation.
Market the smear

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Getting a search warrant is predicated on what you can articulate you reasonably expect to find and seize. What you actually find once you’re in the door can turn out to be quite different and can dramatically change the nature or direction of an investigation. The warrant was broadly written to include “any document with classification markings”, based, in part, on what had been previously surrendered as responsive to the grand jury subpoena. So they had reasonable grounds to believe there were further classified documents; that doesn’t tell you what, specifically, the nature or content of such documents may be when you find them.

A more relatable example might be police doing a search warrant for stolen ID and equipment to make fake credit cards, and finding drugs and weapons once they’re in the house. Or, maybe doing a search warrant for marijuana and finding meth. All that to say, it’s not weird that search warrant results can exceed expectations.

I've got no problem with finding something not in the warrant, I understand that. This,is not what this is about. It's about a political practice, favoured by the dems and the leftist legacy MSM. One would think, if it was so important, involving foreign intelligence, being sold by Trump to Ernest Blofeld , the warrant would have been served before Reinhardt's signature dried.
For now, I'll stick to the idea this is just another timed, staged and coordinated democrat smear as explained by Pelosi. Well see lots more of it before and likely after the midterms. If the leak is true, there is no doubt it was leaked by someone with access to the seized documents. There are only two groups with knowledge of that single page, if it exists, and Trump isn't going to put his own side in a bad light.
Let's not forget, shifty schiff used this move a number of times during the Russia investigation. "I have a high level (non existent) whistle blower that can prove A, B & C." All lies and smears muddying the investigation and feeding the frenzy created by the press chumming the waters.

 

[lenaitch]

If the leak is true, there is no doubt it was leaked by someone with access to the seized documents. There are only two groups with knowledge of that single page, if it exists, and Trump isn't going to put his own side in a bad light.

Or someone connected to the courts. We saw that in the Roe v Wade leak.

As for Trump's side, Julius Ceasar thought Brutus was onside.

 

[OldSolduer]

Or someone connected to the courts. We saw that in the Roe v Wade leak.

As for Trump's side, Julius Ceasar thought Brutus was onside.

There are far too many unelected politicians in any government.

 

[Navy_Pete]

That's been the story of the last 6 years.... "If true... !!!!"

Holy shit, here is the story, read it yourself; used the Guardian link so you don't hit a paywall, but refers to the same source material. How is that not potentially a massive security breach? If you are just going to mindlessly defend Trump without being open to the possibility maybe he did a bigly bad thing without even looking at it, I don't know what to tell you. Just because both sides are wrong doesn't mean this isn't a massive issue. If something is kept as a need to know even among top secret cleared people in the WH, it probably shouldn't be at a fricken golf resort in a random safe.

Some of the records seized from Donald Trump’s Florida estate are typically closely guarded, the newspaper reported, and have “a designated control officer” to monitor the documents’ location.

Among the records recovered by the FBI were documents detailing top-secret US operations that require special clearances “on a need-to-know basis”, beyond a top-secret clearance, according to the Post report. Some of the Biden administration’s most senior national security officials were not authorized to review some of the documents because they are so restricted, the Post said.

FBI found document on foreign nuclear defenses at Mar-a-Lago – report

 

[Brad Sallows]

As I wrote, don't risk conflating the "foreign government’s military defenses" document with other documents. When someone puts a name on the "sources" and identifies what makes the document special, then it might be worth getting spun up. Until then, it might as well be a napkin. If it has an origin involving Adam Schiff, it might as well be cowsh!t.

 

[Navy_Pete]

As I wrote, don't risk conflating the "foreign government’s military defenses" document with other documents. When someone puts a name on the "sources" and identifies what makes the document special, then it might be worth getting spun up. Until then, it might as well be a napkin. If it has an origin involving Adam Schiff, it might as well be cowsh!t.

There is a very short list of government with nuclear capabilities, most are close allies of the US. They might be screaming across the diplomatic channels to figure out if they were potentially compromised. Heck, it could be Israel's capabilities he had the documents for.

For the non-allies, they are probably looking for a spy and purging people. Even publically confirming the document title could get people killed.

Even for hyper-partisan politics that's a pretty shocking claim. At what point do you maybe consider this is actually true?

 

[QV]

There is a very short list of government with nuclear capabilities, most are close allies of the US. They might be screaming across the diplomatic channels to figure out if they were potentially compromised. Heck, it could be Israel's capabilities he had the documents for.

For the non-allies, they are probably looking for a spy and purging people. Even publically confirming the document title could get people killed.

Even for hyper-partisan politics that's a pretty shocking claim. At what point do you maybe consider this is actually true?

Was that one of the documents in the pile on the floor they took a picture of and leaked?

They did accuse Trump of colluding with America's chief Cold War adversary to usurp power and take control of America so... not much else is a stretch.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Or someone connected to the courts. We saw that in the Roe v Wade leak.

As for Trump's side, Julius Ceasar thought Brutus was onside.

Speaking of......? A leak favourable to the dems. Nobody held to public account. No justice to see being done.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Holy shit, here is the story, read it yourself; used the Guardian link so you don't hit a paywall, but refers to the same source material. How is that not potentially a massive security breach? If you are just going to mindlessly defend Trump without being open to the possibility maybe he did a bigly bad thing without even looking at it, I don't know what to tell you. Just because both sides are wrong doesn't mean this isn't a massive issue. If something is kept as a need to know even among top secret cleared people in the WH, it probably shouldn't be at a fricken golf resort in a random safe.



FBI found document on foreign nuclear defenses at Mar-a-Lago – report

I found nothing in the Guardian article about proof. Well written to skirt actual truth with innuendo. No solid source, just second hand info, rumour and spin.