A Deeply Fractured US

[suffolkowner]

Some of these American illegal immigrants do seem to find a way to cross into Canada. Usually I hear that they have crossed via Quebec or Manitoba for some reason

 

[Remius]

Like I said, at some point the boil pops.

Either the powers that be deal with the issue or others will do it. I think we're now seeing the others taking action now. And its going to continue.

Same as crime. It will only get so bad and then the police and politicians will be seen to be ineffective and the population will step up.

So elected officials have a choice. Deal with the issue, or ignore it and send platitudes.

Again. It still does not excuse treating people that way.

It’s still a political stunt. A stunt that is likely raising a lot of money and securing a lot of votes.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Again. It still does not excuse treating people that way.

It’s still a political stunt. A stunt that is likely raising a lot of money and securing a lot of votes.

Treating people what way ? Busing them further into the US ? What a terrible thing to do. They are illegal immigrants. They should be shipped back to whence they came.

I think its a reaction to an ignored situation.

 

[KevinB]

Indeed?

Noncitizens Don’t Illegally Vote in Detectable Numbers

Fact-check: Are 22 million immigrants 'voting illegally' in the U.S.?

Fact check: Claim that voting noncitizens affected 2020 election outcome is unverified

​

Because illegals always answer surveys correctly?
Some of the Blue states give Drivers Licenses to illegals, guess what you need to vote?
In the years I was a Permanent Resident in both FL and VA, when I’d renew my DL it would ask me if I wanted to update my Coter Registration— I always hit negative.
When I became a citizen and updated it, it asked me for zero proof I was a citizen.

 

[Lumber]

Because illegals always answer surveys correctly?
Some of the Blue states give Drivers Licenses to illegals, guess what you need to vote?
In the years I was a Permanent Resident in both FL and VA, when I’d renew my DL it would ask me if I wanted to update my Coter Registration— I always hit negative.
When I became a citizen and updated it, it asked me for zero proof I was a citizen.

Cool. We both agree that voter registration and security should be more robust. I really don't understand all the bullshit that "requiring people to show IDs to vote is racist/discriminatory."

That does not in any way prove your assertion that illegal immigrants are voting in such numbers that they are affecting elections in the favor of democrats. There is so far no proof that I can find of that.

 

[Remius]

Treating people what way ? Busing them further into the US ? What a terrible thing to do. They are illegal immigrants. They should be shipped back to whence they came.

I think its a reaction to an ignored situation.

Nope.

Bussing or flying them off with no actual real info on where they are going, who will receive them and what there next steps are and no warning to the intaking state/city etc. a Governor three states over spending his own state money to move people to targetted political opponents isn’t doing it for altruistic reasons. No surprise that various litigation has been initiated.

Illegal or asylum seekers that need appropriate processing? There is a difference I think. And maybe that is what they need to fix. But certain politicians aren’t putting them on planes or busses back to their own countries of origin. Why is that?

So sending a bunch of people to places like the VPs home is great for political points. It isn’t because they are being so awesome to these people. It’s political. And it’s wrong.

There are ways to wrongly react to any ignored situation.

 

[dimsum]

Exactly what you said, they couldn't get them on a bus and ship them to a National Guard base fast enough. They even cheered as the left Martha's Vineyard. Really compassionate Liberals. Pop that cork.

I'll need a source on that. I've read one opinion piece (from the founder of the Palm Beach Freedom Institute on Newsweek) that suggested that, but it was so biased that it might as well have DeSantis 2024 ads on it.

Meanwhile, the Associated Press, which is pretty much as centrist as it gets (along with Reuters), reported this:

Migrants sue Florida governor over Martha's Vineyard flights

Venezuelan migrants flown from San Antonio to the upscale Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard have sued Florida Gov.

apnews.com

 

[Weinie]

Oh snap! Why haven't they thought of that!? That's a brilliant idea, Weinie! Wow. That opens some real possibilities that I'd never thought of!

Gun violence in Canada? Let's just stop the illegal flow of illegal guns into Canada!

Drug overdoses? Let's just stop the illegal flow of fentanyl indo Canada!

Boy what else can we accomplish if we just stop things?!

You made a statement about illegal immigration and spreading them around to all the states, to share the pain. The U.S. can stop illegal immigration in an instant, but as many posters have posited, a cheap workforce is a boon. I am for legal immigration.

And BTW, I would make possession of an illegal gun a minimum 20 year sentence, and drug trafficking the same.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Or investigators might not find clear evidence that anyone intended to violate laws, and conclude they were extremely careless.

Because illegals always answer surveys correctly?
Some of the Blue states give Drivers Licenses to illegals, guess what you need to vote?
In the years I was a Permanent Resident in both FL and VA, when I’d renew my DL it would ask me if I wanted to update my Coter Registration— I always hit negative.
When I became a citizen and updated it, it asked me for zero proof I was a citizen.

"Coter Registration"??

 

[dimsum]

"Coter Registration"??

I'm assuming he meant "voter".

 

[KevinB]

"Coter Registration"??

Voter, apparently I need another cup of coffee.

 

[Remius]

Voter, apparently I need another cup of coffee.

Lol. I thought it might have been some sort policy or law

I need coffee as well…

 

[Lumber]

You made a statement about illegal immigration and spreading them around to all the states, to share the pain. The U.S. can stop illegal immigration in an instant, but as many posters have posited, a cheap workforce is a boon. I am for legal immigration.

No country, not even the US with all its resources, could instantly stop ALL illegal immigration.

Even if the US completely shut down its borders to anything but trade, they couldn't stop some stowaways from getting in.

Even if the US completely shut down the border to even trade (which is impossible), there are enough unguarded parts of the border that some people would still get in (though if a country did that, it would face imminent economic collapse, so why would you want to move to the states? So, hey, maybe you're right, that could work...)

 

[Weinie]

No country, not even the US with all its resources, could instantly stop ALL illegal immigration.

Even if the US completely shut down its borders to anything but trade, they couldn't stop some stowaways from getting in.

Even if the US completely shut down the border to even trade (which is impossible), there are enough unguarded parts of the border that some people would still get in (though if a country did that, it would face imminent economic collapse, so why would you want to move to the states? So, hey, maybe you're right, that could work...)

You can parse my statements to your hearts delight. I have two pillows on my bed. I will sleep well tonite.

 

[Lumber]

You can parse my statements to your hearts delight. I have two pillows on my bed. I will sleep well tonite.

How am I parsing yours statements? I don't want to do that. Before I responded, I went back and re-verified what you wrote to ensure I was replying to what you actually wrote, not what I thought you wrote.

You said: "The U.S. can stop illegal immigration in an instant".

I'm saying, no, they can't.

Where did I "parse" your statement? Am I misunderstanding what you mean by "parse"? I'm taking it to mean "I'm taking your statement out of context by focusing on only one part of it". Yes, I may be focusing on only one part of it, but I am not destroying the context as a result.

 

[brihard]

You guys all realize the plane load of people DeSantis appears to have deceived into travelling to Martha’s Vineyard were legally in the United States and had status as asylum claimants, right?

As soon as you throw out words like “illegal”, you’ve situated the conversation squarely as one that is at least partly about the law. So, accuracy on points like that matters.

From the coverage I saw, the population of Martha’s Vineyard very quickly rallied to get the individuals from the plane fed and sheltered, and then appropriate state agencies stepped in.

I get that this conversation has shifted into more general and generalized than just DeSantis’ plane load, I just wanted to make sure that one of the underlying premises wasn’t being spoken of in a badly inaccurate way. A governor of State A appears to have been a party to deceiving people in state B to travel to state C, using state A’s resources and tax dollars.

It would be like if the premier of Ontario, using Ontario tax dollars, took a plane load of asylum claimants legally in Quebec, and flew them to Alberta. Would that be cool with everybody?

 

[Weinie]

You guys all realize the plane load of people DeSantis appears to have deceived into travelling to Martha’s Vineyard were legally in the United States and had status as asylum claimants, right?

As soon as you throw out words like “illegal”, you’ve situated the conversation squarely as one that is at least partly about the law. So, accuracy on points like that matters.

From the coverage I saw, the population of Martha’s Vineyard very quickly rallied to get the individuals from the plane fed and sheltered, and then appropriate state agencies stepped in.

I get that this conversation has shifted into more general and generalized than just DeSantis’ plane load, I just wanted to make sure that one of the underlying premises wasn’t being spoken of in a badly inaccurate way. A governor of State A appears to have been a party to deceiving people in state B to travel to state C, using state A’s resources and tax dollars.

It would be like if the premier of Ontario, using Ontario tax dollars, took a plane load of asylum claimants legally in Quebec, and flew them to Alberta. Would that be cool with everybody?

The politics of migrants, whether illegal or legal, has been around since forever. It is a hot button issue in the U.S. What U.S. politicians do is immaterial to you or me. But we can offer an opinion or comment, right?

 

[Mills Bomb]

No country, not even the US with all its resources, could instantly stop ALL illegal immigration.

Even if the US completely shut down its borders to anything but trade, they couldn't stop some stowaways from getting in.

Even if the US completely shut down the border to even trade (which is impossible), there are enough unguarded parts of the border that some people would still get in (though if a country did that, it would face imminent economic collapse, so why would you want to move to the states? So, hey, maybe you're right, that could work...)

It certainly seems that nobody really has any answers on stopping the problem. Do any of the Republican politicians currently have a solid plan on how this could be fixed, or are they just blaming Democrats?

What did Trump's border enhancements accomplishment? Didn't Biden also want to "build the wall" to some extent in his post-election speeches?

It seems they have no issues getting through. Maybe they need the US Army / USMC patrolling the border. It seems like a crisis that has lots of people pissed off but there's few real plans / answers to fix it. I suspect as the world continues to plunge in poverty we'll just see more desperate attempts from the 2nd and 3rd world to get into the US / Europe.

One thing is for sure, Canadian's are lucky there is a second border and cold weather keeping these migrants South of here. The few that make it this far North can easily be dealt with, I mean we leave the border basically open at spots and relatively few come in. We have nowhere near the same level of problems in this regard.

 

[brihard]

The politics of migrants, whether illegal or legal, has been around since forever. It is a hot button issue in the U.S. What U.S. politicians do is immaterial to you or me. But we can offer an opinion or comment, right?

I don’t see me or anyone else stopping you. It’s up to you and everyone else to decide if they heed a call for accuracy on basic facts or not.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'll need a source on that. I've read one opinion piece (from the founder of the Palm Beach Freedom Institute on Newsweek) that suggested that, but it was so biased that it might as well have DeSantis 2024 ads on it.

Meanwhile, the Associated Press, which is pretty much as centrist as it gets (along with Reuters), reported this:

Migrants sue Florida governor over Martha's Vineyard flights

Venezuelan migrants flown from San Antonio to the upscale Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard have sued Florida Gov.

apnews.com

Newsweek is considered left centre. If they wrote a glowing peice on DeSantis, he deserved it. They are noted for their factual reporting.