A Deeply Fractured US

[brihard]

And an unprecedented amount of people that have absolutely zero intelligence on the matter, except what they read in the MSM or whatever bullshit the democrats decide to throw around. Yet they throw themselves up as some sort of expert and lots of people have such sad little lives, that they listen to them. The simplest little inkling of the latest DOJ/Biden/FBI sound bite sets this forum on fire. Wanna be a pariah around here? Agree with a Trump policy. Nobody here has accurate accounting about what is really happening, yet it doesn't stop them from jumping on the latest 'Get Trump' incident and expressing their faux outrage.
It would be nice to see Canadians deal with our rudderless government and its incompetent, narcissistic, mathematically challenged zero as a leader, with the zeal they reserve for Trump.

Feel better now?

 

[Remius]

We all know it’s been during 46 that we’re now closer to a nuclear war since the Cuban Missile Crisis… Could it be 45‘s “I’ll bomb you back in to the stone age” was more of a deterrent than 46’s “we’re ok with a minor incursion“?

Trump was anti nato, isolationist and had no interest in Ukraine other than political info on his opponents.

We’ve been closer to nuclear war because of Vlad. Plain and simple.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Our opinions seem to get a lot of free rent in your head.

Don't kid yourself. You replied. I WIN!

 

[brihard]

Don't kid yourself. You replied. I WIN!

I’m just glad we all had fun.

 

[Remius]

Its a real consiracy.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Along with the fact he requested detailed information far beyond what was necessary for his job function as CinC.

I would hazard to say, as CinC, a POTUS is entitled to whatever information they want, when making considerations for the country. I don't really know though. It just seems that being the most powerful leader in the world being told by underlings they don't need to know something is upside down.

I am of the opinion that Biden has done more to bring us to the brink of war than Trump ever did.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Don't kid yourself. You replied. I WIN!

I’m just glad we all had fun.

You two make me think of the old fashioned duel with pistols,.....except you keep walking and walking, and counting and counting, but never ever turning around.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

You two make me think of the old fashioned duel with pistols,.....except you keep walking and walking, and counting and counting, but never ever turning around.

It works. Leave us alone!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Trump was anti nato, isolationist and had no interest in Ukraine other than political info on his opponents.

To be fair, Isolationist is nothing new for the US. The American public was tired of being the heavyweight, while being criticized by other Western countries who felt they did not have to pony up and pay for defense because of the US. He tapped into a public opinion that was across the board in most of the US.

 

[brihard]

I would hazard to say, as CinC, a POTUS is entitled to whatever information they want, when making considerations for the country. I don't really know though. It just seems that being the most powerful leader in the world being told by underlings they don't need to know something is upside down.

I am of the opinion that Biden has done more to bring us to the brink of war than Trump ever did.

Yes, however Trump ceased to be CinC at noon on January 20th, 2021, after he was defeated in an election and power was handed to his successor. Various laws, a number of them quoted upthread, govern who lawfully owned and possesses government documents, how they’re to be handled and retained, and the circumstances in which they’re to be returned. Those are the matters at issue. It’s reasonable to be concerned about why TS//SCI documents were found in the residence of a private citizen, regardless of his former employment. The investigation at this point seems to have evolved past just “what was there”, and onwards to “who knew and who directed”.

DoJ has a custom (not a rule) of limiting law enforcement actions with potential political ramifications within 60 days of an election. With midterms coming up soon, we may see a flurry of more overt investigative steps shortly afterwards.

You make a fair point earlier about how some people will seize on and breathlessly parrot anything they read on the subject. That’s why I stick to reading the actual court filings, and considering the experience-based insights of a modest number of people who have as well, and who have worked in national security law or criminal prosecution. Otherwise it’s very easy to get drowned in white noise on this one.

 

[Remius]

To be fair, Isolationist is nothing new for the US. The American public was tired of being the heavyweight, while being criticized by other Western countries who felt they did not have to pony up and pay for defense because of the US. He tapped into a public opinion that was across the board in most of the US.

Absolutely. I place no blame on Trump for Ukraine any more than I blame Biden. This is all Vlad.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Absolutely. I place no blame on Trump for Ukraine any more than I blame Biden. This is all Vlad.

I place a lot of blame for Ukraine on Obama, his feeble responses encouraged Vlad to take a gamble.

 

[brihard]

I place a lot of blame for Ukraine on Obama, his feeble responses encouraged Vlad to take a gamble.

How much of the blame does Obama get and how much does Putin get?

 

[QV]

Trump was anti nato, isolationist and had no interest in Ukraine other than political info on his opponents.

We’ve been closer to nuclear war because of Vlad. Plain and simple.

That’s a wrong take and quite the leap from what’s reality regarding NATO. Trump was pushing for MORE contributions by the other players. He threatened to pull out IF the hangers on weren’t going to pull their fair share of the load. We’ve all agreed the freeloading countries needing to pull their weight…

Vlad saw no deterrent, in fact I’d argue he was encouraged by the West. Euro continuing reliance on his energy and happy about it, Biden’s soft approach to initial escalations in Ukraine, etc. Think about what Trump said or did that probably deterred that from happening during his entire term…

 

[TacticalTea]

The American public was tired of being the heavyweight, while being criticized by other Western countries who felt they did not have to pony up and pay for defense because of the US.

Rightly so. How many countries largely depend on the US for their security? How many depend on the US to any degree for their security (I would argue, all except maybe those designated as states sponsors of terrorism).

And yet, of all the voices that trash the US on the regular for its so-called imperialism, how many are aware that the US is the #1 provider of humanitarian aid and intergovernmental organization financing?

Many Westerners (and politicians worldwide) act like spoiled brats, no surprise that it gets grating for the American public and employees of the USG.

 

[KevinB]

I would hazard to say, as CinC, a POTUS is entitled to whatever information they want, when making considerations for the country. I don't really know though. It just seems that being the most powerful leader in the world being told by underlings they don't need to know something is upside down.

Actually no they don’t need all of the source info. They aren’t a HI Or ELINT SME so why do they need to know names and techniques.

I am of the opinion that Biden has done more to bring us to the brink of war than Trump ever did.

Standing up for the Ukraine ?
Honestly Trump is busy trying to sell Ukraine out for ‘America First’ he’s absolutely ducking clueless when it comes to politics and tries to look at the world through a business lens when not everything is about money.

Did he act decisively at times, sure he did - and I loved when he unleashed whoops ass on enemies. He just had a narrow view of who our enemies where and was way to friendly with VVP thinking he could work out an arrangement that was mutually beneficial.

 

[lenaitch]

To be fair, Isolationist is nothing new for the US. The American public was tired of being the heavyweight, while being criticized by other Western countries who felt they did not have to pony up and pay for defense because of the US. He tapped into a public opinion that was across the board in most of the US.

An analysis of US isolationism throughout its history by Margaret MacMillan, whose views I respect:

Why the U.S. Has Spent 200 Years Flip‑Flopping Between Isolationism and Engagement | HISTORY

What does the United States want to be to the world?

www.history.com

 

[OldSolduer]

An analysis of US isolationism throughout its history by Margaret MacMillan, whose views I respect:

Why the U.S. Has Spent 200 Years Flip‑Flopping Between Isolationism and Engagement | HISTORY

What does the United States want to be to the world?

www.history.com

They were quite isolationist prior to 7 December 1941. Very much on board after that.

 

[Journeyman]

They were quite isolationist prior to 7 December 1941.

Similar to the first round when everyone else showed up in 1914 and they waited until 1917. More than happy to be the 'bread basket/machine shop' of the war effort. "We're behind you all the way.... just show me your cheque book."


Someone can explain to the youngin's what a cheque is.

 

[QV]

Durham Witness Drops Trial Bombshell: FBI Offered Steele $1M to Prove Dossier Claims | National Review

Neither he nor Igor Danchenko could deliver, yet the bureau withheld details on how the defendant refuted Steele’s anti-Trump claims.

www.nationalreview.com

Anything goes when your #1 mission is to get the orange man. It's ok though, I'm sure it was just this once... oh.

In other news, when every government institution demonstrate some level of corruption we know for sure the 50 separate state elections were all 100% perfect.