A Deeply Fractured US

[The Bread Guy]

lGood guy. Bad guy. Simple.

Unless you were an American Muslim, born in the US, who thought the terrorists were scumbags while having to listen to all those folks saying “send ‘em ALL back where they came from”.

Painting with broad brushes based on individual examples isn’t new for the left or right. Now, social media offers more gas to throw onto the fires even quicker

Lotsa things to “never forget.”

 

[Altair]

The media and many other institutions are captured by the left. Yes, the media has been heavily favoring one side rather than reporting facts. Until that is mitigated, the problems will continue.

I seem to remember the president of the united states calling the democrats...let me see...

"the enemy from within. And they're very dangerous. They're Marxists, they're Communists and Facists."

 

[QV]

That's where the US has moved to yes. It's a spiral downhill originating in 2015-2020. The other side is biting back now.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The most recent one big beautiful bill cut health care and mental health funding.

I didn't claim that Republicans share none of the blame, did I?

 

[Altair]

I didn't claim that Republicans share none of the blame, did I?

I feel like you're trying to refute my claim that, and I should specify on a federal level, that Democrats get elected and try to pass gun control laws and fail, and the GOP, the party that is anti gun control and blames things like mental health get elected and then gut mental health programs.

Key here is both side of the aisle fails in their own spectacular fashion and then both bemoan when things like this happen as if they are not the architects of this Greek tragedy.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Thesaurus results for ACCEPTABLE Synonyms for ACCEPTABLE: adequate, satisfactory, decent, okay, fine, good, OK, tolerable; Antonyms of ACCEPTABLE: unacceptable, inadequate, insufficient, unsatisfactory, lacking, wrong, objectionable, unsuitable www.merriam-webster.com	Thesaurus results for TOLERATED Synonyms for TOLERATED: permitted, allowed, let, suffered, ignored, condoned, put up with, disregarded; Antonyms of TOLERATED: prevented, prohibited, constrained, blocked, barred, forbade, discouraged, inhibited www.merriam-webster.com
acceptable adequate satisfactory decent okay fine good OK tolerable respectable useful serviceable suitable passable all right	tolerated permitted permissible allowed acceptable authorized approved endorsed legal tolerable promoted sanctioned supported encouraged justifiable excusable

English is a powerfully descriptive language. We could take all the synonyms and rank them from 0 (irretrievably deplorable) to 10 (unquestionably desirable). As a matter of perception and common understanding, "tolerable" expresses the idea of putting up with something one dislikes to a degree that "acceptable" does not. "Tolerable" might be a 4, and "acceptable" might be a 6. Attempts to frame a controversial opinion with shadings of approval that don't demonstrably apply to the person expressing it are to be avoided.

For example, I approve of the 16-year age limit for driving licences without approving the risk of high-speed careless inexperienced driving by young drivers.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I'm happy to hear it's just the left doing this.

/S

People on the right often equate progressives with communists, but rarely a specific well-known monstrous one (Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot).

 

[Brad Sallows]

I seem to remember the president of the united states calling the democrats...let me see...

"the enemy from within. And they're very dangerous. They're Marxists, they're Communists and Facists."

Which one? Reagan? Bush I? Bush II?

Oh, Trump. Sure, he's a useful proxy for the median Republican.

 

[Altair]

Which one? Reagan? Bush I? Bush II?

Oh, Trump. Sure, he's a useful proxy for the median Republican.

They elected him.

Go speak to them.

 

[The Bread Guy]

People on the right often equate progressives with communists, but rarely a specific well-known monstrous one (Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot).

You and I have been looking at different memes on the socials And in a sense you're right: "Socialists are the REAL Nazis" =/= "Democrats are like Stalin."

... Oh, Trump. Sure, he's a useful proxy for the median Republican.

He for sure isn't the median Republican, but he's the Republican the U.S. has in the saddle now steering the ship (to mix my metaphors a bit), so he's now setting the standard, for better or worse.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The elected him.

Go speak to them.

Obviously some of them might have voted for that; equally obviously, not all of them did.

Democrats aren't powerless and reduced to tit-for-tat cat-calling just because Trump is president. For example, Democrats in a city like Chicago, in a state like Illinois, could do a lot to undercut violence, and thus firearm violence, by mitigating severe social problems. I suppose that they fit the frame "they don't seem to do anything, so it means they're OK with that" as well as federal Republicans.

 

[Brad Sallows]

He for sure isn't the median Republican, but he's the Republican the U.S. has in the saddle now steering the ship (to mix my metaphors a bit), so he's now setting the standard, for better or worse.

Sure. But if his standard is the problem, why do so many opposed people find excuses to stoop to it themselves?

I don't particularly care that Trump puts out the same amount of shit as, say, 10 prominent Democrats. Spreading discreditable behaviour around doesn't make it more acceptable.

 

[RangerRay]

So private plane leaves the area 10 min after the shooting. 15min later it turns off its transponder. Transponder is off for 2 hrs. Then it goes on and lands back where it took off from. Doesn’t seem like a random act. Seems more like state sponsored. Given the time frame I suspect it is Russians. Trying to distract an and divide Americans after their attack on Poland.

Is there an open source for this? For this guy to evade law enforcement down there would suggest that this may be a professional, but that’s just a WAG on my part based on the square root of FA.

 

[KevinB]

Is there an open source for this? For this guy to evade law enforcement down there would suggest that this may be a professional, but that’s just a WAG on my part based on the square root of FA.

Yes, but further info suggests it may be unrelated, so l don’t feel as comfortable sharing until more comes up on it. Correlation isn’t necessarily causation. @brihard pointed out some reasonable things about that flight and some local folks also pointed to some other reasons that it may have gone ‘invisible’.

Several knowledgeable folks have suggested that I see Russians behind every bush when bad things happen, and that while it’s often true, I should see what’s behind the bush before pumping it full of lead.

Frankly I’d prefer if it was the Russians, but I can’t let biases blind me to other options.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Is there an open source for this? For this guy to evade law enforcement down there would suggest that this may be a professional, but that’s just a WAG on my part based on the square root of FA.

Generally choose lacklustre competence and/or unfavourable fortune over malice. There can't be very many professionals who wouldn't have taken elementary steps to avoid being caught on camera.

Bear in mind that every wannabe shooter has had ample time to digest what prior shooters did. Some of them are going to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid situations where they end up DRT or apprehended in the first half hour.

The ability of some people out there to leap to conspiratorial thinking is amazing, given how much many of them mock Trump followers for the same behaviour.

 

[OldSolduer]

I will say this:

I saw some of his stuff on social media and some of it I agreed with. Some of it I didn't agree with- but we have the freedom to disagree with whom ever we like.

But for him to be deliberately and with malice aforethought kill him is an affront to humanity.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Sure. But if his standard is the problem, why do so many opposed people find excuses to stoop to it themselves?

I don't particularly care that Trump puts out the same amount of shit as, say, 10 prominent Democrats. Spreading discreditable behaviour around doesn't make it more acceptable.

100%

That said, I've seen both left and right folk being pretty heinous on social media well before POTUS47 - hell, even before POTUS45.

I'm a big fan of "the standard you walk by is the standard you accept." On both sides of the spectrum, though, too many people have blinders on when some of their own are crossing lines while blasting the other side for the same thing. I reshare, at nauseum, this graphic, saying not enough in the middle seem to be saying "shut up" to the dopiest at either end ....

I know, what colour is the sky in my world, hoping for civil political discussion, right?

 

[Brad Sallows]

One thing that ought to be emphasized when assessing the customary arguments and counter-arguments for gun control, especially for those framing restrictive proposals as "reasonable".

The weapon in question is a bolt-action rifle.

 

[OldSolduer]

100%

That said, I've seen both left and right folk being pretty heinous on social media well before POTUS47 - hell, even before POTUS45.


I know, what colour is the sky in my world, hoping for civil political discussion, right?

Politicians at all levels should be banned from Social Media along with their staff.

Leave the idiotic postings to us !!

 

[Brad Sallows]

100%

That said, I've seen both left and right folk being pretty heinous on social media well before POTUS47 - hell, even before POTUS45.

I'm a big fan of "the standard you walk by is the standard you accept." On both sides of the spectrum, though, too many people have blinders on when some of their own are crossing lines while blasting the other side for the same thing. I reshare, at nauseum, this graphic, saying not enough in the middle seem to be saying "shut up" to the dopiest at either end ....
View attachment 95671
I know, what colour is the sky in my world, hoping for civil political discussion, right?

Sure, a man can hope. A man must be realistic, though.

People will deplore the use of military terms in political rhetoric when they're hurting, and then use it against their opponents without breaking stride.

Prominent politicians from presidents on down will vilify opponents as un-American or threats to order, and use chickenshit you-might-be-sorry language to try to browbeat people not directly under their thumbs. (The latter is a popular technique for strong-arming judges and justices without looking like that's what's being attempted.)

And the overarching problem is that fences keep getting torn down (thresholds lowered) in pursuit of particular enemies, and few built or re-built.

The "A Man for All Seasons" lesson: "And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"