Oh definitely. Kirk had a detail, and this still happened. There will be increased demand for sure, and anyone who can pad a resume to claim any ‘counter sniper’ knowledge will milk it.
A Deeply Fractured US
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There's lots of that going around. Just check CNN or MSNBC.
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As opposed to the loss of life and the millions in damages created by democrats in the canonization of a couple of life long, habitual criminals?
@I can't breathe.
@hands up don't shoot.
Meanwhile, not a single building was burned, no riots, and no killings when Charlie Kirk was assassinated. Just peaceful messages of thoughts and prayers. The Right and the Left are not the same.
Considering the billions in democrat waste found DOGE, the cost of paying freight for a casket in the belly of a plane is miniscule and forgettable.
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Brad Sallows
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They might say it, but they'd be mistaken. The rapid widespread notoriety of this event isn't due to orchestrated "push" by the WH; it's due to rapid information sharing in the immediate aftermath - social and conventional media. Assassinations at public events and appearances seem to grip the public in a way that stalking and assaulting or murdering politicians and politically-related figures in their homes does not. I suppose the venue has a lot to do with it, and most particularly the capture of the attack on cameras.
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Bookmark that line for the next time someone suggests doing something to keep people from rioting/putting up roadblocks/blocking train tracks to save in the long run when someone complains they don’t agree with the group being accommodated
rmc_wannabe
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Long post ahead:
I have refrained from commenting on the Charlie Kirk murder this week in order to a) get more information on the guy and b) let the investigation play out.
From the get go, this is tragic for his wife and children, whom I offer my sincerest condolences and sympathies.
I also see this as tragic for the American people, regardless of the political affliation or leaning. No one "wins" in this. This is seeing a once great nation of protected political expression devolve into mob rule by faction. Its terrifying as much as it is depressing.
I will, however, take a moment to try to offer an opinion: we have seen this before elsewhere, but never to this scale or at this speed.
The Anni di Piombo (Years of Lead) in Italy took place from 1968 to 1988, and pitted far-left terrorists, far-right terrorists, and Government factions against one another; with massive foriegn interference and influence pulling the strings. It caused 400 deaths and close to 2000 other injuries, as well as tens of thousands of arrests.
The main cause of these years of bombings, assasinations, and terror? The failure of Christian Democracy to maintain the social contract with citizens founded during Italy's post-War economic miracle. The Workers and Students Unions were quickly infiltrated by the Communists (with help from the KGB) and the business owners, and marginalized right-wingers were easy targets for the Fascists; who wanted a return to the stability they enjoyed under Il Duce. Mix in some Cosa Nostra and N'Dhragetti, you have the perfect storm of political instability and violence to see the world burn around you.
So, how does this relate to Charlie Kirk and the United States in 2025? You have to go back to 2014 and the tail-end of the Obama Administration. There was an air of smugness in the far-left, especially with Obama's defeats of prominent old-money Republicans, Senator MCain and Senator Romney. The GOP had no front-runner, and the ground was laid for major social reforms and actions to be taken. That summer, numerous State bills on abortion, same-sex discrimination, and trans rights discrimination were struck down by the SCOTUS.
The beginning of the true "Woke" movement started in Ferguson with the shooting death of Michael Brown by police, and with that came a "you are either with us, or against us" division between racialised groups and the "Back the Blue" crowds.
Enter DJT. A man who had previously supported the Democratic Party, derided the GOP, and had no dog in the political arena. After hinting at making a presidential run in 2011 during his Comedy Central roast, he looks like he might be serious. But then this is where things take off.
His initial 2015 run shows him as brash, uneducated, racist, xenophobic, dishonest, and sexist. Its lampooned heavily in the media and by the left with vigour. No one thinks he has a shot in hell of winning. Except.
Those far-right outliers that were shoved to the side in political discussions become emboldened. Much like those same ones on the far-left were during the Obama Administration.
Fast forward to 6 Jan 2021. We all know what happened and why. But this was the first step of many into the current Anni di Piombo. Those on the far-right weren't willing to step back into the shadows. The far-left wasn't going to hear them out, either. They needed to get back to work undoing all the damage done by Donny. We see a flash in the pan, but everything settles eventually, right?
Enter the podcast and TikTok. On the far-right, you have pundits and joe-blow saying "what everyone is thinking. If you don't, you're a libtard". On the far-left, same folks yelling "everyone who I disagree with is a fascist."
There is no room for nuiance or debate. Only absolutes and extremes.
Charlie Kirk, while attempting to debate, was an absolutist in his positions. I have watched some of his debates and, while the points he are trying to make may have some substance, he either faces the same absolutist thinking (which is easily refuted) or dismisses legitimate rebuttals as farciful.
And thus here we find ourselves in the wake of this shooting in the same cycle: far-right calling for retaliation/war, far-left gloating/memeing, some folks floating between anger and apathy, others pointing out the reams of other political violence that have occured on both sides: all while the stock at Smith and Weston went up a full dollar a share the day it happened.
This will not end until both sides move toward the centre and try to find common ground, not division. The absolutism needs to stop; there is value in debate, true debate, when you are willing to cede your position to make the argument better and more factual. The result is what matters: do we have a more, well rounded solution, or did "my" solution "win" because I was unwilling to let shit go?
I see this happen almost weekly on this forum (shamefully, I have participated in it) and it often gets us no where in growing in our thinking or shortening the distance on the issues that matter.
This horrible murder was politically motivated, and is unfortunately being politically exploited by both factions. This happened with the Primavalle fire in April 1973, in which both the far-right and far-left took glee in an MSI member (fascist) and his two sons (22 and 8) burning alive in an apartment in Milan.
It will go round and round, with both sides claiming the moral high ground and blaming one another. This is the cycle we find ourselves in until either dissent is squashed entirely, on both sides come to the table in solidarity to hear one another out.
Until then, I offer thoughts and prayers to his wife and kids, and hope it doesn't take 20 years for this to resolve in the U.S.
I have refrained from commenting on the Charlie Kirk murder this week in order to a) get more information on the guy and b) let the investigation play out.
From the get go, this is tragic for his wife and children, whom I offer my sincerest condolences and sympathies.
I also see this as tragic for the American people, regardless of the political affliation or leaning. No one "wins" in this. This is seeing a once great nation of protected political expression devolve into mob rule by faction. Its terrifying as much as it is depressing.
I will, however, take a moment to try to offer an opinion: we have seen this before elsewhere, but never to this scale or at this speed.
The Anni di Piombo (Years of Lead) in Italy took place from 1968 to 1988, and pitted far-left terrorists, far-right terrorists, and Government factions against one another; with massive foriegn interference and influence pulling the strings. It caused 400 deaths and close to 2000 other injuries, as well as tens of thousands of arrests.
The main cause of these years of bombings, assasinations, and terror? The failure of Christian Democracy to maintain the social contract with citizens founded during Italy's post-War economic miracle. The Workers and Students Unions were quickly infiltrated by the Communists (with help from the KGB) and the business owners, and marginalized right-wingers were easy targets for the Fascists; who wanted a return to the stability they enjoyed under Il Duce. Mix in some Cosa Nostra and N'Dhragetti, you have the perfect storm of political instability and violence to see the world burn around you.
So, how does this relate to Charlie Kirk and the United States in 2025? You have to go back to 2014 and the tail-end of the Obama Administration. There was an air of smugness in the far-left, especially with Obama's defeats of prominent old-money Republicans, Senator MCain and Senator Romney. The GOP had no front-runner, and the ground was laid for major social reforms and actions to be taken. That summer, numerous State bills on abortion, same-sex discrimination, and trans rights discrimination were struck down by the SCOTUS.
The beginning of the true "Woke" movement started in Ferguson with the shooting death of Michael Brown by police, and with that came a "you are either with us, or against us" division between racialised groups and the "Back the Blue" crowds.
Enter DJT. A man who had previously supported the Democratic Party, derided the GOP, and had no dog in the political arena. After hinting at making a presidential run in 2011 during his Comedy Central roast, he looks like he might be serious. But then this is where things take off.
His initial 2015 run shows him as brash, uneducated, racist, xenophobic, dishonest, and sexist. Its lampooned heavily in the media and by the left with vigour. No one thinks he has a shot in hell of winning. Except.
Those far-right outliers that were shoved to the side in political discussions become emboldened. Much like those same ones on the far-left were during the Obama Administration.
Fast forward to 6 Jan 2021. We all know what happened and why. But this was the first step of many into the current Anni di Piombo. Those on the far-right weren't willing to step back into the shadows. The far-left wasn't going to hear them out, either. They needed to get back to work undoing all the damage done by Donny. We see a flash in the pan, but everything settles eventually, right?
Enter the podcast and TikTok. On the far-right, you have pundits and joe-blow saying "what everyone is thinking. If you don't, you're a libtard". On the far-left, same folks yelling "everyone who I disagree with is a fascist."
There is no room for nuiance or debate. Only absolutes and extremes.
Charlie Kirk, while attempting to debate, was an absolutist in his positions. I have watched some of his debates and, while the points he are trying to make may have some substance, he either faces the same absolutist thinking (which is easily refuted) or dismisses legitimate rebuttals as farciful.
And thus here we find ourselves in the wake of this shooting in the same cycle: far-right calling for retaliation/war, far-left gloating/memeing, some folks floating between anger and apathy, others pointing out the reams of other political violence that have occured on both sides: all while the stock at Smith and Weston went up a full dollar a share the day it happened.
This will not end until both sides move toward the centre and try to find common ground, not division. The absolutism needs to stop; there is value in debate, true debate, when you are willing to cede your position to make the argument better and more factual. The result is what matters: do we have a more, well rounded solution, or did "my" solution "win" because I was unwilling to let shit go?
I see this happen almost weekly on this forum (shamefully, I have participated in it) and it often gets us no where in growing in our thinking or shortening the distance on the issues that matter.
This horrible murder was politically motivated, and is unfortunately being politically exploited by both factions. This happened with the Primavalle fire in April 1973, in which both the far-right and far-left took glee in an MSI member (fascist) and his two sons (22 and 8) burning alive in an apartment in Milan.
It will go round and round, with both sides claiming the moral high ground and blaming one another. This is the cycle we find ourselves in until either dissent is squashed entirely, on both sides come to the table in solidarity to hear one another out.
Until then, I offer thoughts and prayers to his wife and kids, and hope it doesn't take 20 years for this to resolve in the U.S.
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Correlation may not imply causality, but gas sure can fuel the fire already smouldering. All those people stoking the flames being able to say "hey, the White House says this!" most certainly accelerates any effect/notoriety.
Let's compare, again, one indicator of WH attention paid to the death of a political operator & commentator allegedly because of his beliefs ....
... to the killing in June of a legislator allegedly killed, with her husband, in their home, allegedly because of her beliefs:
If POTUS47 & Co. didn't get as cranked up as they did, I suspect there would be small-c conservative outrage, but not to the level it is.
And yes, there would be left-wing dicks, too.
Fair is fair.
Charlie Kirk called for an 'amazing patriot' to bail out Paul Pelosi's attacker in 2022
Kirk also said he thought the attack was "awful."
www.snopes.com
Viral Claims About Charlie Kirk's Words - FactCheck.org
Since the fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk on Sept. 10, social media users have shared posts showing, quoting or paraphrasing remarks the posts attribute to the conservative activist. Many readers have asked us to provide the facts on whether Kirk, the founder of the youth political group Turning...
www.factcheck.org
Brad Sallows
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Some amount, obviously. Relative to the storm already raging - not much. Camera footage of the instant the bullet strikes Kirk's neck was rapidly and widely circulated. That was probably 50% right there (wild rhetorical characterization). The incontinent pile-on of variations of "tsk, tsk, he had it coming" - say another 40%. The dishonest attempts to frame the shooter as some kind of MAGA acolyte - 5%. This happened a bit more than a year after camera footage of the instant a bullet nicked Trump was rapidly and widely circulated. Details about the Hortman murders and Pelosi attack emerged slowly. Big differences.
It was easy for people to believe that the extreme left's war against "fascists" didn't really mean themselves right up until about now. From what people are writing Kirk obviously wasn't a centrist, but pretty much every American conservative can find at least one of Kirk's ideas that they share.
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This is sure to calm the waters …
Original post by a Trump/Kirk supporter deleted, so I guess we’ll have to speculate about who the non-divisive we vs. they are.
Original post by a Trump/Kirk supporter deleted, so I guess we’ll have to speculate about who the non-divisive we vs. they are.
He was replying to a post by a lawyer named Will Chamberlain that read "No unity. Victory." Will Chamberlain words for the Article III project, an advocacy specifically steered towards putting conservative justices on the Supreme Court.
So yeah, calming and stabilizing.
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I see the WH response as pretty muted when compared to burning down Minneapolis.
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But, but, but she's not saying she's for killing anyone, reeeeeeeeeallly .....
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The Charlie Kirk shooter appears to be a left-wing "anti fascist" type with a transgender partner and frequented left wing extremist sites.
The school shooter from that day was a 16 year old kid allegedly frequented right wing extremist forums and held neo-nazi beliefs.
There should be some eye opening lessons to learn there.
IMO anyone cheering Kirk's shooting on is no different then someone cheering on the neo nazi wanna be for shooting at kids.
The school shooter from that day was a 16 year old kid allegedly frequented right wing extremist forums and held neo-nazi beliefs.
There should be some eye opening lessons to learn there.
IMO anyone cheering Kirk's shooting on is no different then someone cheering on the neo nazi wanna be for shooting at kids.
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This sort of stuff should be replayed here in Canada when anyone starts to complain about the cost to rearm and expand the CAF.
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What happens if people feel fucked over & can’t get a break? They can get sucked down rabbit holes of choice (ease of access?). Easy to try to close/shut down the rabbit holes, harder to fix all the other bits making them feel fucked over to the point of preferring the rabbit holes
daftandbarmy
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Too bad they don't have police along with them to help deal with trolling like this... but it's still kinda funny of course
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Evangelical Christian David French on Partisan Blindness.
www.nytimes.com
Opinion | There Are Monsters in Your Midst, Too
No matter the direction of the tragedy, the end result is the same — the right grows angrier at the left, and the left grows angrier at the right.
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