A Deeply Fractured US

[HavokFour]

Renewed the insurrection act threats.

"If the corrupt politicians of Minnesota don’t obey the law and stop the professional agitators and insurrectionists from attacking the Patriots of I.C.E., who are only trying to do their job, I will institute the INSURRECTION ACT," Trump wrote in a Truth Social post.

Trump threatens to use military over Minnesota anti-ICE protests

Trump's latest threat came a few hours after an immigration officer shot a Venezuelan man who the government said was fleeing after agents tried to stop his vehicle in Minneapolis. The man was wounded in the leg.

www.reuters.com

 

[McG]

I don’t know that enforcement needs to distinguish between supply vs demand in a criminal marketing chain so much as between who holds the power vs who is the weak, vulnerable, exploited, or otherwise victimized. Targeting people who are trapped in the cycle will see those people replaced by new “captives “.

Anyway, things in the US have spiralled well past that discussion point. The current deluge of videos showing questionable use of force escalations is going to draw more American citizens into the fray for principals that have nothing to do with illegal labour.

Video shows moment California protestor is hit in the face with a projectile by federal police officer

Video shows a federal officer hit a demonstrator in the face with a projectile fired from close range during a protest in Southern California last week.

apnews.com

 

[RangerRay]

Funny how Obama mass deported way more criminals without using Gestapo-like goon squads running amok agitating people…

 

[Rifleman62]

Poof, the vast majority will leave as with no work there is no way to sustain themselves. No way to sustain themselves means life isn’t better for them in America and as such they won’t migrate there.

You can open a daycare, transportation company or a adult care facility and make billions.

 

[suffolkowner]

Funny how Obama mass deported way more criminals without using Gestapo-like goon squads running amok agitating people…

Trumps actions are probably leading in self deportations though

 

[Halifax Tar]

Funny how Obama mass deported way more criminals without using Gestapo-like goon squads running amok agitating people…

Illegal Aliens are criminals by definition, no ?

 

[suffolkowner]

Illegal Aliens are criminals by definition, no ?

misdemeanor

 

[brihard]

Worth bearing in mind that there are many instances now of ICE agents grabbing people who have legal status in the U.S. when they attend scheduled routine immigration meetings.

It would be fun and probably enlightening to see stats on how many people have been arrested for removal who have no criminal convictions or allegations against them.

I wonder if there’s decent data yet on what this is doing to economic sectors that typically rely on foreign labour?

 

[OldSolduer]

Yes it can, all it takes is one law and they shall deport themselves voluntarily.

Make it illegal to employ illegal immigrants. Any American found doing so is liable to 5 years in prison (a fine doesn’t dissuade the rich enough).

Poof, the vast majority will leave as with no work there is no way to sustain themselves. No way to sustain themselves means life isn’t better for them in America and as such they won’t migrate there.

The whole reason this problem exists is because Americans love cheap illegal labour. Punish those creating the incentive and the incentive disappears.

Where are all the rich folks going to find maids, gardeners, etc?? Think of the children!!!

 

[brihard]

Where are all the rich folks going to find maids, gardeners, etc?? Think of the children!!!

I was thinking agriculture, construction, meat processing, stuff like that. But yes, the monied class may be directly affected too.

 

[suffolkowner]

Worth bearing in mind that there are many instances now of ICE agents grabbing people who have legal status in the U.S. when they attend scheduled routine immigration meetings.

It would be fun and probably enlightening to see stats on how many people have been arrested for removal who have no criminal convictions or allegations against them.

I wonder if there’s decent data yet on what this is doing to economic sectors that typically rely on foreign labour?

is that why our veggies are so expensive?

 

[Remius]

is that why our veggies are so expensive?

We’ve been over this before about beef prices. Range Control is to blame.

 

[RangerRay]

Illegal Aliens are criminals by definition, no ?

Actually, it’s what they call down there a “civil” offence I believe, so not criminal.

 

[brihard]

is that why our veggies are so expensive?

Dunno. I’m not the one to ask on that. I’m still skipping produce grown in the States anyway.

Renewed the insurrection act threats.

Trump threatens to use military over Minnesota anti-ICE protests

Trump's latest threat came a few hours after an immigration officer shot a Venezuelan man who the government said was fleeing after agents tried to stop his vehicle in Minneapolis. The man was wounded in the leg.

www.reuters.com

I won’t go so far as to say it’s deliberate strategy - but wouldn’t disbelieve it if it was - but I don’t think Trump minds the insurrection act option. It furthers his deliberate acceleration on the country’s trajectory. I’ve seen speculation that they’ve been looking for a city that could put up a fight and justify the act’s invocation. It’s depressing that that’s even plausible.

 

[suffolkowner]

We’ve been over this before about beef prices. Range Control is to blame.

missed that one I guess but i would argue locally there just arent as many cattle farmers and herd sizes were reduced do to a lack of return and poor/inconsistent forage. It then takes time to build your stock up

Dunno. I’m not the one to ask on that. I’m still skipping produce grown in the States anyway.


I won’t go so far as to say it’s deliberate strategy - but wouldn’t disbelieve it if it was - but I don’t think Trump minds the insurrection act option. It furthers his deliberate acceleration on the country’s trajectory. I’ve seen speculation that they’ve been looking for a city that could put up a fight and justify the act’s invocation. It’s depressing that that’s even plausible.

I just skip the veggies

 

[lenaitch]

Illegal Aliens are criminals by definition, no ?

It's as clear as mud to me but here is one description.

What is civil offense? Simple Definition & Meaning - LSD.Law

A civil offense is a violation of a law or regulation that is not classified as a crime. Unlike criminal offenses, these actions typically lead to fines,...

lsd.law

It's a different system than we have. They have a stronger delineation between 'state' and 'federal' law. Here, criminal law is federal (although largely provincially administered).

 

[Booter]

Illegal aliens here on an expired visa are a civil offence- the ones that never were in the country lawfully are criminals is my understanding? (In the US)

 

[brihard]

Illegal aliens here on an expired visa are a civil offence- the ones that never were in the country lawfully are criminals is my understanding?

We don’t have ‘civil offences’, although a lot of offences are referred to as ‘regulatory’ in nature. But there’s still a statute somewhere classifying them as summary or hybrid offences. The prosecution of them is to the same standard of proof, it’s more just a way of categorizing some types of offences.

However we have all kinds of administrative law where, even is something is not ‘prosecuted’ as an ‘offence’, there are still administrative decisions to be made and appeals adjudicated with major consequences. Immigration almost always falls into this space. Someone in the country illegally will likely not be criminally prosecuted, but their admissibility will be reviewed, any claims to asylum or protected status will be reviewed, and they can be ordered removed from the country, all of that done administratively.

There are criminal offences that can be prosecuted for customs and immigrations violations. Usually they just aren’t because it’s a more burdensome process and will join the heavy queue in the courts, and there’s no extra bang for the buck if they’re gonna get punted anyway.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Illegal aliens here on an expired visa are a civil offence- the ones that never were in the country lawfully are criminals is my understanding?

My understanding is even entering Canada illegally is not a criminal offence unless it "involves deception, organization, or evasion", which would then fall under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act s.124

 

[Booter]

Sorry I was making reference to the law in the states. I know nothing about Canadian context on this at all. That’s my bad