A junior officer looking for some advice.
- Thread starter Uberirdisch
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hauger said:
hauger said:
Are you aware that being presented a Commissioning Scroll is not the actual act of being commissioned?
Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that the commission is not granted until successful completion of the basic training course (even if it's post dated to before when the course began). Listen, I don't really care if this guy wears the rank of 2lt or not, but as an untrained hire he should be going through basic as a Ocdt. Whatever though, if his unit wants to do it this way, that's their call.
People enrol and are promoted immediately to the rank of Capt. frequently because for all purposes they are MOC qualified. Examples are Doctors and Lawyers. After Basic, they do some military familiarization and head off to do the job they already know how to do.
It took me all of 5 minutes to find DAOD 5031-8 (http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5031-8-eng.asp) which spells out some officer development milestones in very general terms. More pertinent is CFAO 11-06 (http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/011-06-eng.asp) which is pretty clear about enrolment to Ocdt, however, an applicant can be enrolled and immediately commissioned to the rank of 2Lt or higher *IF* the applicant " possesses special qualifications gained through civilian or former military training or experience, shall be enrolled in the rank of officer cadet and may immediately be commissioned in the rank of second lieutenant and promoted to such rank or granted such acting rank as is authorized by NDHQ." |This is where Doctors, Lawyers, CFR's all come in with the higher rank.
Otherwise....Ocdt it is until such time as he graduates from basic training.
So, unless you can sell to someone that a degree in psychology = "special qualifications", someone screwed up and the applicant should be wearing the Ocdt strap for his time in basic. Usually there's some pretty strong push back from the 2Lts out there that know deep down they shouldn't be wearing that bar (I knew quite a few CEOTP's that insisted they were 2lt's).
It took me all of 5 minutes to find DAOD 5031-8 (http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5031-8-eng.asp) which spells out some officer development milestones in very general terms. More pertinent is CFAO 11-06 (http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/011-06-eng.asp) which is pretty clear about enrolment to Ocdt, however, an applicant can be enrolled and immediately commissioned to the rank of 2Lt or higher *IF* the applicant " possesses special qualifications gained through civilian or former military training or experience, shall be enrolled in the rank of officer cadet and may immediately be commissioned in the rank of second lieutenant and promoted to such rank or granted such acting rank as is authorized by NDHQ." |This is where Doctors, Lawyers, CFR's all come in with the higher rank.
Otherwise....Ocdt it is until such time as he graduates from basic training.
So, unless you can sell to someone that a degree in psychology = "special qualifications", someone screwed up and the applicant should be wearing the Ocdt strap for his time in basic. Usually there's some pretty strong push back from the 2Lts out there that know deep down they shouldn't be wearing that bar (I knew quite a few CEOTP's that insisted they were 2lt's).
Blackadder1916
Army.ca Fixture
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hauger said:
Perhaps if you had taken a little more time than the five minutes you would have realized that the references you provided are not applicable to the situation as described by the OP. DAOD 5031-8, as you have already indicated, only discusses general requirements as relating to development periods, not requirements for promotion. CFAO 11-16 . . . well, the title says it all “Commissioning Policy – Officers – Regular Force”. The OP is in the
CFAO 49-10 Terms Of Service - Officers - Primary Reserve includes the following in its Annex A
Appendix 3 is a table titled “RANK FOLLOWING ENROLMENT” that would be a pain for me to recreate here but the line serial for the entry plan that (I assume) the OP enrolled under indicates the qualifications needed for immediate promotion to 2nd Lt from OCdt on enrolment.
By my interpretation of the “applicable” references (though there may be other directives, CANFORGENS, or command policies that modify them) no one screwed up, no one deliberately did anything contrary to regulations and the OP is not wearing a rank which he shouldn’t be wearing. Does it clash with sometimes narrow Regular Force sensibilities (I’m assuming you’re Reg Force) about appropriate rank and qualifications? Perhaps, but he is in the “mo” and as stated in CFAO 49-12:
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Eowyn said:
How is that even possible? I'm really dumbfounded as to how an officer can be commissioned without having undergone any training.
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BadEnoughDude said:
Because the entire training system in the military doesn't just involve Basic. If someone has some previous education qualifications that warrant a higher rank upon enrollment, then why not make it more attractive to recruit those people?
For myself, I would be interested in know some examples of qualifications, outside the realm of medical or legal, that would qualify someone for a higher rank than OCdt. Any certain types of degrees? Former management experience of x number of years? Previous completion of a Basic course?
Appendix 3 is kind of ambiguous, and for good reason - to allow the CO more flexibility.
